I have a 1985 Westfalia. 2wd but 1985 had the highest stock ground clearance for the 2wd Vanagons. It handles the NH dirt roads in the Parks just fine. I do want to put a winch on it and probably a ltdslip when I Suby swap it. Only thing I changed was I put 15" Porsche phone dials and 215somethingsomething BFG all terrains on it.
My buddy and his wife are currently traveling in their 4wd f350 with a slide in camper. Last I heard they were in AZ (from VT) following some light 4wd roads and camping in some very cool spots. They are living the dream.
Rodan
Dork
1/5/21 10:18 p.m.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
Well, that's in pretty bad taste, even for a FB ad...
There are some Class B's that ale almost big enough for the needs you've mentioned a few times, but they carry a pretty hefty price tag, and not a lot of options on the DIY front. Typical school bus is going to be too long for what you are wanting, and a "short bus" is just a big van... too small for what you are looking for. Truck campers, by the time they are big enough, have crazy high asking prices, as well, and are not user friendly for gettin in / out of. My wife REALLY likes being able to walk into the back without getting out of the truck.
French'd is right on the life of semi truck engines... but the Medium Duty rigs do not have those engines in them. The modern semi's don't even have the same engines he is referring to! Some aspects of the newer big rig engines are way better, but other aspects are not. But its a moot point, since you are not looking at $300 K rigs! ( yes French'd, they still have those brands, but electronic engine management has changed a lot of total costs to keep that longevity - and more!
The cost of a bigger chassis / engine for a RV are well worth it... but it does get a bit expensive. We got our 99 FL50 for $30K a few years back. Its in better mechanical shape now than when we bought it (it looked perfect, but wasn't), but that crowd, wants pretty cosmetics, and mine no longer has that! I'd ask 10 for it after finishing a few more things, or after stretching the wheelbase a couple of feet and including the Peterbuilt sleeper. But I'm REAL negotiable right now! As is, it has a 8' western hauler bed behind the integral 4 1/2 foot body extension that Cabriolet added. could go about 5 more feet back with just a frame added behind rear wheels. Only thing it need to make it to your place is 2 tires, and 2 batteries. ( I could pull the new batteries out of the coach, come to that) I can include a 23' camper to get the RV parts out of as well. I think I could build it reliable for about 12K, but I don't think it would be very polished looking!
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
Some assembly required.
I have been rolling this kind of thing around in my head quite a bit. For a long time I thought I wanted a 'motorhome' RV. I was in no position to actually buy one so about a year ago, we bought an old 'hybrid' travel trailer for cheap. I no longer have any desire for a self propelled RV. It is so convenient being able to drop the living space at the camp site and explore with the tow vehicle (Honda Ridgeline). Granted, it isn't as maneuverable, but you can still get to some pretty awesome places towing a small-medium travel trailer. You already have the van to tow a camper, seems like a travel trailer would be a cheap way to start out.
I feel like a lot of you guys are missing the part where Pete travels with an entire zoo. Animal friends probably don't want to be in a travel trailer separated from the humans towing them, hence the motorhome.
Having done the crappy Class A thing once, I'd only consider doing it again with something more towards the "tour bus" end of the spectrum. Maybe a Wanderlodge? Either that or going custom built.
In reply to 03Panther :
I think it's probably too much truck for us & out of our budget today, but I do have a few questions. Is it automatic or manual? Is it registered as an RV currently? What size tires does it need?
In reply to karplus2 :
That's sort of our plan-D right now. If we reach a point where we need a solution to go visit the kids(and especially if their place has room to drop it in their driveway or on the street) then it could work. Ultimately though we want to avoid campgrounds as much as possible, and the van being a 4.6 is going to struggle up the mountains of the west with a decent size trailer. It's definitely the cheapest option by a big margin though.
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
Initially I was really interested in bigger rigs, but in researching things there's just many places you can't take them. Even with a toad you're still somewhat limited.
For example, I was watching a vid of some people who pulled their jeep behind a schoolie. They were traveling the PCH & saw a place along the roadside they really wanted to stop. Unfortunately the lot was too small for their rig, there was no safe space to park on the shoulder, nor anyplace they could do a u-turn. Their only choice was to keep driving until they found someplace with a big enough lot for their rig, park & unhitch the jeep, then turn around & drive back however far it was. In reality for them - and definitely for us too - that means you just don't get to stop at places like that very often because it's just not worth the hassle.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
The toilet/shower debate really depends on what one wants out of their RV/camping experience. After much back-and-forth debate, I am firmly on the "want" side of the argument, but I have my reasons not applicable to this discussion. If you want to have some fun, go over to the Home Built Campervan Facebook group and ask this question - and watch the proverbial poo fly... although for the most part, most home builders are on the "no" side. The other debate is "Composting Toilet vs. Cassette Toilet." Personally, I plan to do a standard black tank toilet - but again - I have my reasons.
I grew up camping out of a canoe, which meant that several times a day we had to pick everything up - including our mode of transportation - and carry it through the woods. The concept of driving up to a campsite, not having to erect a tent and even staying dry when it rains is fantastic luxury to me :) And the fact that our camper is more like a car than a bus is also a plus to us. We can take it anywhere and never have to worry about access or parking.
I totally get why some people want to be able to poop in their vehicle. I just wanted to make it clear that there are some significant costs involved so it should be a deliberate choice instead of an assumption.
preach said:
I have a 1985 Westfalia. 2wd but 1985 had the highest stock ground clearance for the 2wd Vanagons. It handles the NH dirt roads in the Parks just fine. I do want to put a winch on it and probably a ltdslip when I Suby swap it. Only thing I changed was I put 15" Porsche phone dials and 215somethingsomething BFG all terrains on it.
Ours is a 1985 as well. It's always looked really tall, now I know why. I've never felt the need for an LSD on my dirt use, but I am conservative because I don't want to lay my house on its side.
This is a picture of a Dodge Tioga II Motorhome exactly like mine. It is a 19 footer which I think is about the right size for a motorhome, at least for me. It's about the size of a long van. You can actually pull u-turns and park it where the big Class As won't go. It has plenty of ground clearance as well for campgrounds with dirt roads. A Honda EU 3000 generator powers the whole thing....quietly.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I've camped out of a canoe as well. And I've winter ski-camped in upstate NY in Jan. I've fine with minimalist camping when that is the intent. But again - it comes down to what one wants or needs out of their RV experience.
My plan is for at least half of my RV trips to be to mtn bike parks along the East Coast. Some have minimal camping facilities. Most do not, so an on-board toilet is a must. It is usually disgustingly humid here - so A/C is a must. After a day of park riding in body armor and getting soaked in sweat, a shower is a must.
I agree the plumbing requirements will be extensive and in my case, more complicated than a normal RV in order to save water. My plan is to have 4 tanks: Fresh, Gray, Black, and a recirculating shower tank (with an extensive filtering system). In order to save water, the toilet will draw flush water from the gray tank, although I accept that will require additional plumbing complexity. Fortunately, others have traveled this path so the main task for me will be finding space for all of these systems (along with a couple of others I haven't mentioned).
But in the end, the basic plan is fill the fresh water tank, drive to the destination, ride for a few days, drive home, dump/flush the tanks.
Have I mentioned I've spent way too much time thinking about all of this?
The thinking is the easy and fun part, it's much less work than the doing :)
You've got good reasons for wanting various creature comforts and you're aware of the tradeoffs. That's perfect. It's just something to be taken into account. You will pay a penalty in cost, reliability, complexity and packaging for that shower and toilet. Same with the AC - now you're carrying a generator and you're making noise while sitting still. Yes, I know modern generators are pretty quiet but they're still noisier than no generator. If your goal is to seek out nature, that constant burrrrrrrrrrr is not a plus. So you make the decision to require external electricity or carry four tanks of water knowing the tradeoffs because you have considered what you really need.
I don't consider our Westfalia to be "minimalist camping". It's about as luxurious as I consider camping to be (a refrigerator!!) before you're basically just driving a hotel around. Once your vehicle has rooms, you have crossed a line! But that's because I started at the minimalist level and worked up. The design choices of that vehicle match well with how I like to camp and the benefits I get from making certain sacrifices - or the sacrifices I'm willing to make for certain benefits. If we went for AC and a shower and a toilet, it would be a different vehicle to live with, to maintain and to use.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
An LWB version of that, with the same rear overhang, would likely be a great platform for us.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Actually no - no generator. Big Lithium battery bank and a 12V compressor. My van already has a rear HVAC set-up, so the (very) rough plan is to disconnect that from the engine system and connect it to the stand-alone 12V compressor. The batteries will be charged by a combination of a second alternator, some solar and shore power (if available). I did look at generator, but besides the noise and space, the final design-killer was the cost. Small diesel generators that can fit under a van are expensive. Expensive to the point where the difference between one and just buying a crap-ton of lithium batteries is about the same. And since the van in any form will have a 12V battery setup, just making that larger was the easier solution. And diesel because I don't want to deal with propane. Heat will come from a diesel boiler that feeds the rear HVAC as well as water-water heat exchangers for the sink and shower.
Yes... getting all of this out of my head, onto paper and then actually into the van will be the challenging part.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
I agree on the size of that a lot. I was kinda shopping for one before the prices jumped 30 fold.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :
There are several issues for the critters - while the gliders & torts have specific diets(and each tort has completely different diets), for vacations we could likely find someone from our rehab group who could feed them. However, the gliders bond to their owners so it wouldn't be practical(or safe) for a stranger to attempt to get them out of their cages for exercise. While that would be ok for a day, their well-being would suffer over a week or more. Plus we'd still have to deal with potential evacuation situations.
No heat lamps or anything? I know very little about this so it might be a stupid question.
The reason I ask is for power concerns , anything that produces heat kills batteries a lot. I've lived off grid for a long long time and can steer you towards a cheaper system than most would recommend.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Actually no - no generator. Big Lithium battery bank and a 12V compressor. My van already has a rear HVAC set-up, so the (very) rough plan is to disconnect that from the engine system and connect it to the stand-alone 12V compressor. The batteries will be charged by a combination of a second alternator, some solar and shore power (if available). I did look at generator, but besides the noise and space, the final design-killer was the cost. Small diesel generators that can fit under a van are expensive. Expensive to the point where the difference between one and just buying a crap-ton of lithium batteries is about the same. And since the van in any form will have a 12V battery setup, just making that larger was the easier solution. And diesel because I don't want to deal with propane. Heat will come from a diesel boiler that feeds the rear HVAC as well as water-water heat exchangers for the sink and shower.
Yes... getting all of this out of my head, onto paper and then actually into the van will be the challenging part.
I think you need to start another thread about this plan and build :) I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I was not aware of decent 12V compressors, that's an interesting plan. It's going to definitely need a fair bank of batteries - that compressor pulls 20A at the lowest setting or 96 A at the highest. I don't know what the duty cycle is, but you're looking at 240 Ah to run it for 24 hours at 50% duty cycle on low. You'll need a lot of solar to keep up with that. I get what you mean about the cost of a gennie, it's interesting that going full battery is cost effective. Battery prices keep dropping.
I assume you've seen the water setup in Drive Nacho Drive, it's got a complex and pretty neat coolant/hot water heat exchanger.
How will you cook?
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :
There are several issues for the critters - while the gliders & torts have specific diets(and each tort has completely different diets), for vacations we could likely find someone from our rehab group who could feed them. However, the gliders bond to their owners so it wouldn't be practical(or safe) for a stranger to attempt to get them out of their cages for exercise. While that would be ok for a day, their well-being would suffer over a week or more. Plus we'd still have to deal with potential evacuation situations.
No heat lamps or anything? I know very little about this so it might be a stupid question.
The reason I ask is for power concerns , anything that produces heat kills batteries a lot. I've lived off grid for a long long time and can steer you towards a cheaper system than most would recommend.
They need to be warm, and need UVA/UVB, but in a relatively small box we should be able to get some of that naturally. I've seen some in-floor RV heat setups that would work well for the torts too.
I'd love input on solar! I've been watching some vids, but haven't checked into costs beyond that class-C rehab I posted earlier.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
An LWB version of that, with the same rear overhang, would likely be a great platform for us.
The longer versions are actually easier to find but don't expect the fiberglass shell. Most of those are made of aluminum and tin. The problem is that most of these are 40 years old, somewhat worn out and some have even had homeless people living in them by now. Expect to put some work and money into them. I spent about $4,000 putting all new springs, suspension and bushings in mine and I still have an old motorhome with a sucky interior. I had to go to an 18 wheeler suspension shop to get the rear springs and the front alignment done. It is a money pit and I will probably keep it forever.
The minimalist camping discussions are interesting, and I’ve done some of that as well. While fun, I never took my family and a bunch of critters with me. I don’t think Pete’s critters would enjoy traveling and camping out of a canoe.
Everyone has different needs in a recreational vehicle. Traveling with my wife and dogs, and staying in it while working 12 hr shifts, we found being able to walk into the back is worth it.
But I would never tell anyone else that their needs are the same as mine. If someone likes dropping the bumper pull off to be worth it that’s fine do them. Doesn’t make everyone else wrong.
From pete’s description on needs, the ideal compromise for him is either going to be way expensive, or older class c’s that are usually pretty rough, or something custom. A VW ain’t a suggestion that matches his question, and neither is the 46 1/2’ high end coach I’d love to sell him.
