Dbussey1 said:No comments on the Honda Fit that was walking away from him out of every corner?
That was the first thing I was thinking before he crashed: "How is he going to manage to hit a wall while he can't even take a Honda Fit?" That was before I read his part about the setup issues and first time out with the Exocet.
In reply to sun573 :
Will do on the Facebook part - Next event for me will be with Track Nights in America @ AMP ironically - I figure I could start to get familiar with the track - then I have a day with JTI @ AMP on May 19th.
Just thought of this, but man, I bet you're glad you left the nose off of the front of the Exocet while you were on track.
Please add some padding to the cage! And consider arm restraints.
Here's all the other times I didn't crash. I definitely shouldn't have been driving as hard as I was, but it was great fun!
Awesome attitude. Big thumbs up. I've totaled two cars on track. After the second one, somebody asked me why I was smiling so much. It was because I was able to walk away. Then they asked why I wasn't upset about the car being wrecked. My response was that I considered the car totaled the minute I finished building it. It was just a matter of time until it happened.
In reply to sun573 :
That car is a handful! Is that vid with the rear sway bar?
Glad the damage was minor, because if i owned something super light with no bodywork and a tube frame all the way out the front and it WAS damaged by a soft hit like that, i'd sure be mad.
rustybugkiller said:In reply to sun573 :
That car is a handful! Is that vid with the rear sway bar?
First time out, it's going to be a little off in the handling department. I tend to spend the "get to know you" stage of a new car provoking it to see how it responds. This means that anyone who sees videos thinks it's an ill-handling beast, but that's not true by the time it's done!
The first time my MG hit the track, it blew a huge fireball as the vented filler cap dribbled fuel on the passenger's side exhaust tip. Stuff happens...
You can make an Exocet handle quite well with a rear sway, but it's only one part of the whole chassis setup. The 949Racing alignment specs and spring ratios that are often used on track cars are intended to have little or no rear bar. If you set it up more like a Spec Miata, you'll want that bar.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I realize they can handle but that car, as it is set up, is more work than fun to me. I tend to set up a car on an auto cross course and fine tune if needed at the track. Expensive mistakes can happen on the track compared to an autocross.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Keith,
I'm about to purchase your Fox suspension kit with the standard 550/375 spring rates. Some quick maths with a suspension dynamics calculator and Excel tells me that these rates will be pretty close to what I want, which is a natural frequency of around 2.6 front and 2.8 rear. This was calculated with the stock sway bars theoretically on the car. Do you have any advice regarding setup? Thanks.
In reply to rustybugkiller :
Do keep in mind autocross setups aren't (in my experience) great for the track. Turn in is great, autoX levels of turnin will have you spinning. That and it'd take a really big autoX course to come close to a track as far as elevation/camber of turns, etc. Tracks are big, scary, and much much faster than your average autoX course (again, in my experience).
I "shake down" on the autoX, I never setup on the autoX. My Civic HB felt TUUURIBLE on an autoX course (a big one at that), but felt fantastic on track.
I "shake down" on the autoX, I never setup on the autoX. My Civic HB felt TUUURIBLE on an autoX course (a big one at that), but felt fantastic on track.
This was really what I intended to say but my writing and my thoughts don’t always coincide.
In reply to sun573 :
Was this the Jzilla event a couple weekends ago? I think I got to spectator hill right after it happened. Glad it wasn’t in 16!!!
The car appears to be loose. A rear bar would not be the answer. Softer springs might help.
In reply to iceracer :
I think he said earlier (or in the video description?) he disconnected the rear bar after this - it's on stock NB suspension I believe. I think this super-twitchy appears to be pretty common when you have both sways connected on Exocets - I guess the weight messes with it? Sounds like he wants to switch to Fox suspension.
Rule of thumb (with Miatas at least): the higher your power/weight, the more you want your steady state handling balance to be biased towards understeer. Helps put the power down. That's very simplified, but explains why an Exocet wants a bit more front roll stiffness than a Miata with the same springs/shocks/power.
Autocrossers tend to want a setup with again, more front roll stiffness. I think this is because of the torque multiplication of being in low gears all the time and the fact that you can toss the car into a corner. For autox, it's all about the turn in and the drive out. There's no real need for mid-corner balance. Take an autocross setup on the track and it will feel a bit lifeless mid-corner.
sun573, I can't answer your question without knowing the alignment setup you'll be running.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Keith, I was kind of asking about alignment and general setup. I'll probably run the 949 race alignment as this is a track only car, but if you suggest something else then I'll probably try that out too.
If you run the 949 alignment, then drop the rear bar and you'll be in the ballpark. That's pretty much how we had the shop Exocet set up.
Suspension frequency is a fun tool, but it does completely ignore other sources of roll stiffness and the alignment so you have to be careful not to rely on it completely.
Thinking about his some more, I'd be tempted to check the caster setting to see if those front wheels weren't close to being a shopping cart. I've driven cars with dicey (- or neutral) caster and they can be a handful. My default now, for anything RWD, is to dial in as much + caster as possible, with about 1/16" of static toe-in, and work from there.
In reply to sun573 :
Props for all that!
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