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petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/15/12 6:19 p.m.

Now that I've sourced a used Zetec for the Europa, and am working on adapting the GSXR 750 throttle bodies to the Weber intake for it, I have some questions about extracting more power (relatively) inexpensively.

Specifically, I have a question about cams. Both Crane and Comp offer cams for the Zetec in a Stage-1/2/3 configuration, and details on the cam profiles are available from the manufacturer's sites - unfortunately, I don't understand it enough to really utilize the info.

What I don't want is the need to remove the head, because if I'm going to go that far, I might as well do upgraded valve springs, and mill - and possibly even port - the head(which then will require a new gasket and studs), adding to the cost. So I'm trying to determine which cams will work fine on the stock valve springs, and without needing to go through with the extra work. This can all happen later, if I feel the need for more power, after the car is together and relatively sorted.

The next question/problem is that I want to keep decent torque low enough in the RPM range to allow me to pull out of slow autocross corners. Each set of cams gives an operating range, generally starting at 1600-2200rpm on the low side, which seems low enough for me? But then also, wouldn't adjustable cam gears help to vary that range as needed???

Unfortunately, there seems to be conflicting info online as I've seen the same set of cams advertised from one vendor stating the need to upgrade springs, mill the head, etc. But on another site the exact same cams are shown stating "works with stock head, no modifications required". I've spent several days searching Focaljet and Focus Fanatics, as well as some UK sites, but the signal-to-noise ratio is too high, and it's hard to tell who really knows what they're talking about.

So - does anyone here have experience building these engines? Or at least feel confident/competent enough to give me some advice if I post the cam profiles here???

corytate
corytate Dork
10/15/12 8:32 p.m.

I would say as a generalization that probably only a "stage 1" type cam would work well with a completely stock head because they are meant to be mild bumps of power and remain very streetable.
Adjustable cam gears would help you shift the power band up or down, same with changing ig timing (similar to the miata timing advance mod, which makes a very noticeable difference.)
I don't have any zetec experience though to know specifics=/

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/15/12 9:34 p.m.

"Stage-2" seems to be the accepted maximum upgrade stated in most of the posts I've read - but they're usually qualified with "sounds really cool at idle" vs. any actual documented results.

And your description of adjustable pulleys matches my understanding also. But I've also read that more aggressive cam profiles only work at higher RPM when they really start to flow. Adjustable gears wouldn't have any significant impact there, would they?

ST_ZX2
ST_ZX2 HalfDork
10/15/12 9:36 p.m.

Adjustable cam gears on stock cams, with a good intake/exhaust work well and give you a 7000+ RPM motor...and most likely the best low/mid-range torque that you want.

ST_ZX2
ST_ZX2 HalfDork
10/15/12 9:38 p.m.

There is no real benefit to big cams until you get into full porting, shaving and hi-test multi-angle valve jobs etc. That is where the money comes into play.

iceracer
iceracer UltraDork
10/16/12 7:15 a.m.

On the "teamzx2" site. "John P" has done extensive head and cam work on the Zetec. Check him out.

NOHOME
NOHOME Dork
10/16/12 7:40 a.m.

Having learned and re-learned this lesson a few times, I am going to advise that you leave well enugh alone until you get the car up and running and have a performance baseline.

You are already commited to a homebrew efi experiment, and you want to toss a cam swap in at the same time that comes with question marks of its own? No good will come of this in my experience.

A Zetec in a Europa is going to be fun if it is running in strong stock trim. Get your fueling dialed in and report back on where it feels like it needs more power.

If you are a serious competitor, the plan would be to go with a higher numerical final drive and a cam that delivers power above 3k.

grpb
grpb New Reader
10/16/12 10:36 a.m.
NOHOME wrote: Having learned and re-learned this lesson a few times, I am going to advise that you leave well enugh alone until you get the car up and running and have a performance baseline.

This, but part of that is building a nice exhaust manifold, meaning a tri-y with adjustable secondaries and corresponding room to accommodate on the exhaust side. Cam tuning IS exhaust manifold tuning and vice versa. Copying the SVT header dimensions but with better flowing/slip fit collectors and package space to change secondary length will help in the short and long term to get the most out of the engine.

Without more flow from a ported head, the benefit of the upgrade cams on a Zetec are in the centerlines. Best bang for the buck with a stock head is to use the stock sprockets (which have no keys or pins) to put the stock cams on 110 deg centers. Yes, you will need to fiddle since the slots intentionally won’t line up, but it’s free.

yamaha
yamaha Dork
10/16/12 11:36 a.m.

pete, a friend of mine did the crower IIRC stg 2's on stock springs and it did ok. Actually woke the car up a good chunk......I believe they also made it an interference engine.

Worst case, see if Massive Speed System is still around, if so....get ahold of carl and pick his brain on the subject.

N Sperlo
N Sperlo PowerDork
10/16/12 11:42 a.m.
iceracer wrote: On the "teamzx2" site. "John P" has done extensive head and cam work on the Zetec. Check him out.

Do this. Keep in mind two things. The stock exhaust manifold is terrible as most are, and you will find your torque and horsepower higher in the range of 5.5k to 7k rpm. Excellent engine to work with. Is it a variable or static cam engine?

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/16/12 12:13 p.m.

Thanks for the replies everyone!

The exhaust will be upgraded, as the stock manifold won't fit between the Europa's frame rails. For now I'm planning on a $150 eBay "ram-horn" header, as its cheap and I know it will clear. If I ever take the build to a higher level, I'll look for other(custom) options.

Good to know I won't yet need can gears, as that will save $150.

NOHOME - I really appreciate your words of experience. I certainly don't need to over complicate this.(And I'm holding off on quite a bit of things so I can get it running and sorted first). But cams, without going crazy on headwork, seem like a relatively cheap and easy 15hp, and should put me right around my 175-180hp target(with ITBs, MS & header).

Hal
Hal Dork
10/16/12 2:37 p.m.

I have the Ford Racing Stage 2 cams in my Focus. I think they were made by Crane but not sure. When the engine was NA they gave me a good bit more low and mid-range power and did not require anything other than reshimming the valves. Since I put the supercharger on it they have a little bit too much overlap and I am losing some boost. Stage 3 cams will give you more top end but may also turn the engine from non-interference to an interference engine

As suggested by others, the best idea to start is just get a set of adjustable cam gears for the stock cams. When we first started playing with them back in 2001 we could usually pick up ~5HP from just adjusting the gears.

yamaha
yamaha Dork
10/16/12 3:36 p.m.

In reply to Hal:

I'll bet you the crower 2's are as nasty as the crane 3's then.....

iceracer
iceracer UltraDork
10/16/12 5:51 p.m.

what car did the Zetec come from ? The zx2 and the Focus have differences in the heads and the cams. The cams from one won't fit the other.

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/16/12 6:29 p.m.

The engine is out of a 2000 Focus, non-VCT.

Caleb
Caleb Reader
10/17/12 10:27 a.m.

If your looking at cams gude performance has been building zetec parts for some time now for http://www.gude.com/Products/camlist.php#ford

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
3/19/19 1:39 p.m.

I’m going to pull this from the pits.  Since my engine gave out.

the cylinder head that was in the car was the ford performance head.  I’ll have to get new seats in it when its repaired.  

Currently, I have stage 2 comp cams that were in there. Any thought on adding some more? Stage 3, or 4, race or whatever the heck someone has out there?

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
3/19/19 2:48 p.m.
Thinkkker said:

I’m going to pull this from the pits.  Since my engine gave out.

the cylinder head that was in the car was the ford performance head.  I’ll have to get new seats in it when its repaired.  

Currently, I have stage 2 comp cams that were in there. Any thought on adding some more? Stage 3, or 4, race or whatever the heck someone has out there?

What do you plan on doing with it?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/19/19 2:58 p.m.

That's for the Birkin, right?

IIRC, these engines got a lot of use and hotrodding in Sevenesque cars over the pond. I'd be looking up UK suppliers to ask them questions.

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
3/19/19 3:07 p.m.
Brotus7 said:

What do you plan on doing with it?

cars a birkin, DM Autoxcar. So mainly racing in Autox.

 

therieldeal
therieldeal Reader
3/19/19 3:09 p.m.

Have you considered trying to find a complete long block from an SVT focus to throw in there, instead of modifying a standard zetec to the Nth degree?  Just an idea... in theory the SVT engineers already did the heavy lifting as far as making a streetable high-power zetec.

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
3/19/19 3:20 p.m.

In reply to therieldeal :

Yes, though the cylinder head I have is better than a factory head.  Larger valves, etc.  and the Svt cams are smaller than the current ones.

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
3/19/19 5:34 p.m.

Was there any magic sauce in the bottom endnof the blowed up engine, or was it mostly the head?

Also, is there anything you want to improve/change from what you had? IE, more mid range torque? More high rpm power, and don't mind torque loss?

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
3/19/19 8:29 p.m.

Power overall but midrange bump would help.  Stock bottom end was in the car.

Thinkkker
Thinkkker UltraDork
9/14/19 10:19 p.m.

I have another question for the more Zetec Gurus around.

I finally got the head back, yes it took this long.  I also have a new computer to use in the car which would allow me to take advantage of multiport injection.  The unfortunate thing, is that the Ford Performance head does not have the cam timing provision on it. 

Anyone have any ideas as to how I may be able to get some sort of cam timing setup on this thing?  Batch fire is not the worst thing in the world, but if I can do sequential, why not?

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