Factory Five design contest thread

okay, I have created a photobucket account so I will upload it once again, sorry guys...

xabier wrote: okay, I have created a photobucket account so I will upload it once again, sorry guys...

I can see it now, and boy, do I see it. that's very nice.

XABIER:

In Flickr, try clicking the "Actions" button, then "View All Sizes", then select an appropriate size (probably "Medium 640"), right click the image and select "Copy Image Location" (Firefox) or "Copy Image URL" (Chrome).

You can then paste that URL here using the image button as Tom described above.

Xabier, your design is glorious! i love it, a lot! its a little fancier than I envisioned, but honestly, its just right for todays market I think. Not retro, not super futuristic, just ...now. Well done sir! I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

D2W wrote: Tom do we only get to see the weekly winner or can we see a sampling of the weekly submissions? Overall I think this weeks winner is a bit hard and edgy for my tastes but I do like some of the design elements. The headlight treatment is good. It would be easy to produce that design with projector lamps. Profile is nice, like the scoops, like the rear cowl. DP

It's possible, but there's some logic behind only revealing 1 per week. Over the months that the contest is open, there are sure to be some designs that will look similar to one another. Some folks have already expressed concern over having their entries broadcast to the public.

I'd rather show a single outstanding entry for each week; this can provide some guidance for the rest of the community and gives one entrant a nice pat on the back and some goodies. This also secures that entry as the unique work of the entrant.

If people are comfortable with showing their entry to the world, this thread is the perfect place to do so. Some of the submissions we've seen here already are fan-daggone-tastic.

When it comes time for the final round of judging ALL of the submitted entries will be reviewed whether they were chosen as a weekly winner or not.

Hopefully this helps; if there's a groundswell of support to see all of the entries, it could happen.

Thanks for the explanation Tom. I'm just excited about the project and hungry for information.

Two things I would recommend in a body with the already decided subaru drivetrain.

Number one is, side scoops. Most likely you will buy a low compression ratio FI subaru engine to put in this car (all WRX, STI and LGT 2.5 engines are engineered this way). It was designed for a turbo charger, so you will have to have a dedicated side vent to direct air through an intercooler. The other side vent can be your intake.

Number two is intake and exhaust tubing/pipe space. There will have to be space to allow tubing for the intake side of the turbo and the exhaust side. Intake side: intake to turbo, turbo to intercooler, intercooler to engine manifold. Exhaust side: engine exhaust to turbo, turbo to cat converter, cat converter to muffler/exhaust tips.

The intercooler has to be shielded from engine heat as much as possible.

It would be much nicer if the body was designed around these general requirements of the FI boxer engine rather than having to customize it later.

I love Stavros's design.

Teh E36 M3 wrote: 1. The designs look great, though the reliance on ludicrous wheel size to fill the arch is unrealistic. WRX's came out of the factory with 16's and 205/55 tires, with 17's optional, has anyone thought of creating a design with these dimensions in mind? I know most who build the car will change out the wheels, but 20's on an 1800lb aren't necessary, nor are they in keeping with the goal of a $15k car.

The outlines provided in the templates scale to about 24.1" OD, which seems about right. If people follow the template, they'll be in the right neighborhood. Stavros' designs seem to follow. Naturally, you can realistically use anything between 13 and 18" wheels to get that OD.

In reply to bbjones121:

Unless you work for Factory Five, let's avoid making design specifications for them. They know what they want and what they need.

Not that you're off base with those needs, but they aren't going to be precisely located on the design sketch anyway. Like it says on the first pages of this thread, we're looking for creativity, not engineering.

In reply to Ian F:

It is now on the site, was included with the first downloadable set but got left off when the updated templates were added.

They're back now.

As a quick check, here's some sample tire sizes:

205-55-16 = 24.9" WRX

185-60-14 = 22.7" Miata

195-50-15 = 22.7" Miata

205-50-16 = 24.1" Miata

205-45-17 = 24.3" Miata

175-55-16 = 23.6" Elise front

225-45-17 = 25.0" Elise rear

In reply to Tom Heath:

I updated it by removing the submitting a design concept part. It shouldn't be a specification for the design. Anyone not familiar with that engine, should still take note. I would hope that FFR would engineer it around the possibility or necessity of a turbo on that engine, to not design that way and not provide the chassis with clearances to meet the extra tubing/piping required for an FI with the subaru drivetrain would be crazy. That would be putting a 500hp capable engine into a car and physically limiting/crippling it to only 250hp.

I get a terrible feeling in my stomach that a 2.0 liter might be the powerplant that was used in design rather than the newer, abundant 2.5 liter.

In reply to Evan:

WRX went to 17" wheels in '06, so should be exact same as 25" Elise rear.

bbjones121 wrote: In reply to Tom Heath: I updated it by removing the submitting a design concept part. It shouldn't be a specification for the design. Anyone not familiar with that engine, should still take note. I would hope that FFR would engineer it around the possibility or necessity of a turbo on that engine, to not design that way and not provide the chassis with clearances to meet the extra tubing/piping required for an FI with the subaru drivetrain would be crazy. That would be putting a 500hp capable engine into a car and physically limiting/crippling it to only 250hp.

I don't really agree. With a rear engine setup, you'll have a hell of a time getting enough airflow for a rear mounted air to air intercooler. Instead, you'd go air to water, which eliminates a ton of air piping in exchange for water piped up front to an additional cooler. What is important is getting airflow through the engine bay to cool things, as any rear engine car does. If you put the engine in back without any natural airflow, that oven will get super duper hot in no time. With that said, some clever underbody inlets and outlet grills can accomplish this pretty effectively with little impact on styling. Of course, if your styling incorporates this then that's even better.

Bryce

Nashco wrote:

bbjones121 wrote: In reply to Tom Heath: I updated it by removing the submitting a design concept part. It shouldn't be a specification for the design. Anyone not familiar with that engine, should still take note. I would hope that FFR would engineer it around the possibility or necessity of a turbo on that engine, to not design that way and not provide the chassis with clearances to meet the extra tubing/piping required for an FI with the subaru drivetrain would be crazy. That would be putting a 500hp capable engine into a car and physically limiting/crippling it to only 250hp.

I don't really agree. With a rear engine setup, you'll have a hell of a time getting enough airflow for a rear mounted air to air intercooler. Instead, you'd go air to water, which eliminates a ton of air piping in exchange for water piped up front to an additional cooler. What is important is getting airflow through the engine bay to cool things, as any rear engine car does. If you put the engine in back without any natural airflow, that oven will get super duper hot in no time. With that said, some clever underbody inlets and outlet grills can accomplish this pretty effectively with little impact on styling. Of course, if your styling incorporates this then that's even better. Bryce

It may be a good idea, but it would be much more expensive and Lotus engineering would probably disagree with you.

Porsche would probably disagree with your comment about the ineffectiveness of a rear air to air intercooler also.

You may not want to sandblast your engine compartment with an underbody inlet either.

In reply to Evan: Thanks Evan. It's the info I needed! Now its time to create some hotness!

xabier wrote: okay, I have created a photobucket account so I will upload it once again, sorry guys...

I really REALLY like this one. The Scooby headlights make it! Only thing I would change: drop the seat 'fairing' and do a targa bar like a 914 or X1/9.

bbjones121 wrote: In reply to Evan: WRX went to 17" wheels in '06, so should be exact same as 25" Elise rear.

They actually came with 215-45-17's, so they'd be a little smaller. I wasn't trying to make a comprehensive list, I was just providing tire sizes for cars of similar dimensions to compare to the tire outline provided in the design templates.

In reply to Evan:

Sorry, that is right. I think when I replaced mine on my LGT, the 225's were much more readily available and were cheaper. I think a lot of people replace them with 225's.

This is a very Mofo modified version of the Lamborghini Embolado (which is NOT really a Lamborghini but an amateurs rendition of what the next Lambo should be... boys got talent). It speaks to me.

This is the original:

Note the wheelbase difference and more.

Really clean look Xabier. Very nice job.

bbjones121 wrote: It may be a good idea, but it would be much more expensive and Lotus engineering would probably disagree with you. Porsche would probably disagree with your comment about the ineffectiveness of a rear air to air intercooler also. You may not want to sandblast your engine compartment with an underbody inlet either.

Fair point on 911 intercoolers. I think you'd agree that it's fair to say they've got slightly more expensive components to play with and slightly more engineering time to optimize airflow, core size, and packaging for their machines. I don't think that a water:air system needs to be much more expensive. That Subaru donor has an air conditioning condensor, right? Repurpose that thing for the front water cooler. Box the top mounted intercooler in a water jacket. Get a used Bosch electric water pump (or similar), reservoir, and appropriate hoses and fittings. Less than $200 and 20 pounds should net you a simple, effective system good for lots of heat transfer without any crazy aero tricks. If you have a stock WRX engine and it doesn't justify the hassle, just leave the stock TMIC on there and drive. The only reason this is necessary is if your body design favors less air scoops and vents to the rear.

I'm not sure what you mean about sandblasting the engine. I've never worked on a mid/rear engine car that didn't have the bottom of the engine exposed to the elements.

Bryce

That's a lovely car, but I have one request:

Can we please have a decently low sill height and good sight lines? Does the world really need another claustrophobic car where your head is just visible above the sills, and you've got massive blind spots at the rear quarters? I for one do not want this car to remotely resemble a Lotus 7, but we can recall one of that car's greatest virtues - a wide-open driving experience.

Mofo, thats hot, now make it a roadster. I agree with Kreb, we need this FF car to be a wide open car with a roll bar. Pop the top, and I think the blind spot issue goes away

That is a sweet design John. I really think this is what future sports cars are going to look like. They won't be bubbly, they will have shapes and lines similar to the F-22 raptor. Just look at the new proposed Lotus cars coming out in the next couple of years. You will notice how both Lamborghini and Ferrari have future concepts to mimic this new style. Even the Lexus LFA follows some similar lines. Anyways, nice work on the design. I think you could easily add a roof/rear top scoop to bring air down through an intercooler in the rear.