In reply to stanger_mussle (Forum Supporter) :
I'm interested but looks like you may be in Florida. Traveling that way right now won't be possible anytime soon.
Went and ALMOST bought the previously mentioned Accent this evening. It was a 2 hour drive, so a buddy rode along to help drive it back and we figured we could meet another friend for a bite to eat. Car had major hail damage all along the hood and roof. None of that was mentioned, and they didn't want to drop the price to what I thought was reasonable considering the damage. So we had dinner with my friend and I'm back at the drawing board.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Timing chains need to be replaced on most modern engines. The only counterexample I can think of are Toyotas because Toyota has so far managed to avoid using fine-pitch chains.
Yeah, but that's a 200-300k+ / unlimited years item vs. a 90k/7year or whatever belt interval.
ProDarwin said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Timing chains need to be replaced on most modern engines. The only counterexample I can think of are Toyotas because Toyota has so far managed to avoid using fine-pitch chains.
Yeah, but that's a 200-300k+ / unlimited years item vs. a 90k/7year or whatever belt interval.
Most timing chains I replace are in the 60-100k range. I had to replace a bunch of valves and rockers on an engine that jumped time at 66k.
With a timing chain engine you are buying the previous owner's maintenance habits. If the car comes with a stack of invoices/receipts for regular oil changes, that is a lot more confidence inspiring. If they wait for the indicator to come on at 10k OCIs or whatever, walk away. (Odd that some Hondas go forever on chains, but every one I've had to do chains on had less than 90k)
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
With a timing chain engine you are buying the previous owner's maintenance habits.
Agreed, I'm betting most of the ones you are replacing have been neglected. Even, then 60k is pretty astounding unless 60k is also their first oil change.
In reply to ProDarwin :
That particular one was an Ecotec. Oil change every 15k whether the oil life monitor was at 0% or not.
But look at all the money they saved!
I LIKE that Hyundais are not infected with those oil life monitor things. Sort of like how Saturn did not use platinum spark plugs, because they didn't want the vehicle owners to have a gas-and-go zero maintenance mentality.
To be fair to the Fiats, if you abuse the oil system, they have problems with the hydraulics that operate the intake valves LONG before the chain is an issue.
ProDarwin said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Timing chains need to be replaced on most modern engines. The only counterexample I can think of are Toyotas because Toyota has so far managed to avoid using fine-pitch chains.
Yeah, but that's a 200-300k+ / unlimited years item vs. a 90k/7year or whatever belt interval.
that accent belt takes 2 hours in the garage to change on your own. IT's so idiotically simple I'd let my wife do it. With one cam gear to do it, the only "trick" needed ist to put the timing mark on the crank at TDC and call it a day.
Mndsm
MegaDork
7/23/20 7:23 a.m.
Jerry said:
Meh, still loving my Fiat. :)
I get the sense that the abarth is somehow a much better car than the base model.
Jerry
UberDork
7/23/20 8:07 a.m.
Mndsm said:
Jerry said:
Meh, still loving my Fiat. :)
I get the sense that the abarth is somehow a much better car than the base model.
Possibly. I haven't been in a year or two, but Fiat's on the Tail of the Dragon would pull 100+ cars in and no one bitching about problems. Or I got lucky? I dunno. I'm at 69k miles with minimal issues, all but 114 are from me including the Dragon, autocross and track days.
For the record, SWMBO has a 500x, with almost 100k miles.
In reply to Jerry :
I don't mean this to sound snarky so please don't take it as such.... but if a modern car ISN'T putting down 150k miles with nothing but gas, oil, tires and brakes something is seriously wrong. 69k and 100k are truly rookie numbers. That alpha engine and trans are good for an easy 300k miles with minimal maintenance. The suspension is a beam axle in the back and struts up front. easy. low maintenance and as long as your wife doesn't drive over curbs sturdy.
To be fair, when the intake runner motor broke on my first gen forte I was pissed. That was the first Hy/Kia we'd owned that had a failure below 160k miles.
I forgot to mention i also have a 5spd manual Toyota Echo now (206k, just broken in). It's half the car a Prius is (but it has a manual!) but it's in a similar league to an older Accent. Scion xA/xB and Yaris are on the same platform. Same basic engine as the Prius, but with 2000 more rpm and one million percent more moneyshift potential with the manual. I'd call them extremely simple and reliable and recommend it to anyone that would rather have the Toyota than the Hyundai in the same segment.
bobzilla said:
that accent belt takes 2 hours in the garage to change on your own. IT's so idiotically simple I'd let my wife do it. With one cam gear to do it, the only "trick" needed ist to put the timing mark on the crank at TDC and call it a day.
Yeah, I dig the simplicity. There are some awful to change timing belts though.
bobzilla said:
ProDarwin said:
bobzilla said:
that accent belt takes 2 hours in the garage to change on your own. IT's so idiotically simple I'd let my wife do it. With one cam gear to do it, the only "trick" needed ist to put the timing mark on the crank at TDC and call it a day.
Yeah, I dig the simplicity. There are some awful to change timing belts though.
Any Honda engine ever.
So.... buy RB Accent, then change the TL's belt. Got it!
Did anyone suggest a ZX3 2005+ Duratec Focus? Timing chain, Mazda based motor, cheap with aftermarket and only a bit bigger.
While I am fairly biased as I own a 500 Abarth, If I had to own a Hyundai, I would get the Veloster. If you get the turbo N you get the best of both worlds. Hyundai Reliablity with the Fiat's power. And in a very unique and interesting shape.
mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:
If you get the turbo N you get the best of both worlds. Hyundai Reliablity with the Fiat's power.
I think that's an understatement... the N makes 115hp more than the Abarth.
The shape is no weirder than a Fiat, but it is indeed weird. I wish mine had a 4th door every. damn. day.
Jerry
UberDork
7/24/20 7:01 a.m.
bobzilla said:
In reply to Jerry :
I don't mean this to sound snarky so please don't take it as such.... but if a modern car ISN'T putting down 150k miles with nothing but gas, oil, tires and brakes something is seriously wrong. 69k and 100k are truly rookie numbers. That alpha engine and trans are good for an easy 300k miles with minimal maintenance. The suspension is a beam axle in the back and struts up front. easy. low maintenance and as long as your wife doesn't drive over curbs sturdy.
To be fair, when the intake runner motor broke on my first gen forte I was pissed. That was the first Hy/Kia we'd owned that had a failure below 160k miles.
I agree. My point was more for the Internet Experts that act like every Fiat is exploding at 20k miles.
In reply to Jerry :
Explode? No... it's italian. It'll not start and catch on fire first. Duh. 
bobzilla said:
ProDarwin said:
The shape is no weirder than a Fiat, but it is indeed weird. I wish THEY BROUGHT THE i30N TO N/A.
Fixed for accuracy.
True. But I don't mind the veloster shape/size. Wish it had 4 doors though.
I think our 4 Door/Hatch option is going to be the Kona N. Because 'murica.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Sort of like how Saturn did not use platinum spark plugs, because they didn't want the vehicle owners to have a gas-and-go zero maintenance mentality.
Saturn did some unique of serviceability things that I wish caught on. Not designed to go forever with no maintenance, but the maintenance is super easy to do.
- Self bleeding clutch hydraulics. I know some cars have this, but many don't it seems.
- Auto trans w/ spin-on filter and drain plug
- Top fill & dipstick on the manual trans
The chain does not have a maintenance interval though. I've never had to do one (but to be fair, never had one over ~230k miles), but I know that if neglected the oil can coke up the tensioner and cause problems.
The problem is (aside from it being a Saturn) the replacement parts are epic garbage. I'm guessing that's a trend across the industry now though :(
I was thinking of this on the way in this morning. When I was at acura we had a travelling salesman that drove an RSX-S, an 02.(first year). When I left he was buying a second gen TSX because that RSX had 330k miles. he had to replace the chain and tensioners about every 100-110k miles. The timing belt car intervals were 105k at the time. So it was kind of a wash.
bobzilla said:
ProDarwin said:
bobzilla said:
that accent belt takes 2 hours in the garage to change on your own. IT's so idiotically simple I'd let my wife do it. With one cam gear to do it, the only "trick" needed ist to put the timing mark on the crank at TDC and call it a day.
Yeah, I dig the simplicity. There are some awful to change timing belts though.
Any Honda engine ever.
I wouldn't say that. Some of the older fours and newer sixes are easily done in under two hours.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
bobzilla said:
ProDarwin said:
bobzilla said:
that accent belt takes 2 hours in the garage to change on your own. IT's so idiotically simple I'd let my wife do it. With one cam gear to do it, the only "trick" needed ist to put the timing mark on the crank at TDC and call it a day.
Yeah, I dig the simplicity. There are some awful to change timing belts though.
Any Honda engine ever.
I wouldn't say that. Some of the older fours and newer sixes are easily done in under two hours.
If you have the special tool.
