This thread came to mind when I read about this Suzuki Swift at Tsukuba Time Attack on Speedhunters. GRM also has an article or 2 on grassroots racers entering the Daytona 24.
These guys aren't in it to win, but by being able to compete with a fraction of the resources of the big dogs doing well is enough of a victory.
In reply to Tom1200 :
I have always enjoyed your posts here. always. And I could not agree more with you. Dunking it out, cat and mouse, over last place is the best fun you'll ever have. The same reason we like a close drag race instead of a one sided victory.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:1SlowVW said:
Objectively in racing if you don't win you have failed.
That, I think, is a pretty narrow view. I go drag racing to tune my car. If I run a 13.9 and the guy in the next lane runs a 12 flat, did I fail? I don't think so, because I did not enter the race with the goal to win, I entered it with the objective of education and entertainment. I would only have "failed" if I had a bad time and didn't learn anything.
I can understand the appeal of road racing instead of doing track days even if the "only" goal is entertainment. At least you know you'll be grouped with people of similar spec cars.
I hope I'm not picking nits because that's not my intention. But as I understand dial in drag racing. If you dial in 14.00 but turn a 13.9 you may have won if no one is closer to their dial in? Have I got that right?
Assuming that to be the case. Then that's a pure race. What's more it's relatively rare that the guy in the other lane damages your car.
I do AX, TT, and HC because I get to race against myself. In those formats I can always try to do better than my last time, and if I do, then I've "won". And I have a blast doing it.
Racing more directly against others makes it too open-ended for what I'm looking to do. There's a million variables: did I lose because the other guy is actually a more skilled driver or did he just out spend me? Did he select a better car? Was he willing to pony up for fresher tires? Does he know someone who can do a killer car setup? That's all a legitimate part of racing, but I just don't have that level of interest in it.
To really win at racing, it's pretty all encompassing. And I'm more a "jack of all trades" personality type.
I have won a handful of races, still haven't one in Endurance race but have lead 3 times before a catastrophic failure. I still want to win a endurance race (dream of doing so), but that doesn't stop me from checking off other goals, racing at Pro tracks and putting in fast times and having good battles. I would likely would have to pay the big bucks to be on a good team to get that win, if they would have me. I don't think people know that they have less then a 10% chance to win. Maybe those that do hop around to different classes or start new classes. I am sure if I showed up at a local autocross event with a shifter I would win my class, because nobody else runs, honestly it probably be more fun battling for 10th place at the local kart track. I still dream of doing the runoffs and atleast one Pro event (even though the window is all but shut) Doesn't stop me of dreaming or making goals, thats would makes it a hobby.
There is a lot of interesting psychology behind people in motorsport. Someone once told me "You don't quit what you're good at", and I think for the most part that is true. I don't ever expect to compete at a level that would earn a solo national championship, but I'm pretty sure I would stop coming out if I was consistently last, or embarrassing myself. That said, I don't mind losing to people with more skill or more practice. Conversely when my codriver and I started running a Boxster for rallycross, I ended up losing interest because it seemed like we would literally never lose again until someone else bought a Boxster or better. I want to feel like I'm racing against the best talent in equal equipment, if I'm last in that field I'm totally ok, and willing to challenge myself to get faster.
In reply to Definitely gone now :
Thank you for the kind words.
frenchyd said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:1SlowVW said:
Objectively in racing if you don't win you have failed.
That, I think, is a pretty narrow view. I go drag racing to tune my car. If I run a 13.9 and the guy in the next lane runs a 12 flat, did I fail? I don't think so, because I did not enter the race with the goal to win, I entered it with the objective of education and entertainment. I would only have "failed" if I had a bad time and didn't learn anything.
I can understand the appeal of road racing instead of doing track days even if the "only" goal is entertainment. At least you know you'll be grouped with people of similar spec cars.
I hope I'm not picking nits because that's not my intention. But as I understand dial in drag racing. If you dial in 14.00 but turn a 13.9 you may have won if no one is closer to their dial in? Have I got that right?
Assuming that to be the case. Then that's a pure race. What's more it's relatively rare that the guy in the other lane damages your car.
If your competitor didn't go faster than they dialed in or red light or cross the center line you lost. I'm sure there's a technical term but here it's just called "breaking out".
I'm also not the best person to ask about drag racing as I've only participated a handful of times.
Autowerks,
GRM crowd strikes me as being either the best or worst sample group possible. I'm sure an academic physiologist could write many a case study on the people that frequent this board.
I love it here.
1SlowVW said:If your competitor didn't go faster than they dialed in or red light or cross the center line you lost. I'm sure there's a technical term but here it's just called "breaking out".
I'm also not the best person to ask about drag racing as I've only participated a handful of times.
Yeah, that's my understanding too. If you break out then you lose unless the other guy also breaks out. Being closer to the dial-in only matters if you both lost and they need to break the tie for the tournament structure.
So, I've mostly done autocross to this point, but it's been a varied bit of fun.
I started with my 97 mustang. When I started, I met Gimp and the goal was to beat his 97 Hyundai accent. I'd get a clue, he'd get tires, I'd get tires, he'd get a turbo. I'd get r comps, he'd get a new car. It was fun, we'd joke at the bar and our friendship grew to the point where we were in each other's weddings and still friends 18 years (holy carp, has it been that long!?!) Later and still collaborate on improving each other's cars.
I basically built my mustang into an ESP light prep car and ran it in one local series for years. My best ever result saw me get 5th in pax out of close to 100 entries. I was estatic. I wayy over performed where the car should have been.
I changed primary cars to an sts Miata and ran with a different group and was always rounding out the top third. Miata was so consistent as to almost be boring. Good development, but it's where it performed. I had a friend with a jacket run it and I could pull out a run not too far behind. He had a lot more seat time per year than I did, so I kind of justified the pace difference that way. I also didn't have a good consistent measuring stick. It was a good car, but it wasn't a challenge and the thrill was going away. Got the mustang back out and had fun with the more challenging ride, but I know that car very well and I needed a challenge.
So I got the F500. Have been having the time of my life getting it running close to where it should. Finally got my first FTD, but it being basically expected doesn't give the joy that the 5th in pax the mustang gave at that one event. The thrill is the speed and development of car/driver, that has been fantastic fun. The sensation of speed is off the charts and to actually go faster I'd have to spend cubic $ or physically punish myself in a kart (I'm not up to that).
I'm thinking about working in track stuff in the next few years (as life and kids allows). It's going to be more about chasing thrills than the competitive win. That said, winning is always nice though...
I had a dream to own a race car my entire life. My first Spec Miata race weekend I got lapped by the lead pack.
It was my first race weekend, running a car that I bought with my own money after struggling to save and get on the race track for almost 10 years.
Just being there and being a part of it all was the top of the mountain for me. It can take years of improvement to be competitive in auto racing and I love being a part of it, always have.
In reply to Apexcarver :
I'm loving developing the F500; the AMW motor is finally done and I'm working on installing the Rotax. Can't wait to get the extra power in the car and looking forward to see how I move up the order at vintage races & how much closer to the Karts I get.
In reply to fornetti14 :
Congrats on getting to your first race; just getting to the track is a huge undertaking.
Racers are good people and it's just such a great hobby.
I'm going this weekend to the drag strip and running true street, or a small scale drag and drive event within the event, after about 17 yrs away... Will I finish first? Nope because I know the fast guys go 8's if not near 7's in the quarter. Will I finish in one of the top spots per best per second time? Probably not because it's a mid 12 sec car bone stock.
My main goals are to not get lost and finish the cruise and 3 back to back passes. I mean I could run one of the heads up classes but the slowest one there is 10's... plus I don't run the snooozefest bracket race bs.
One step at a a time.
fornetti14 said:I had a dream to own a race car my entire life. My first Spec Miata race weekend I got lapped by the lead pack.
It was my first race weekend, running a car that I bought with my own money after struggling to save and get on the race track for almost 10 years.
Just being there and being a part of it all was the top of the mountain for me. It can take years of improvement to be competitive in auto racing and I love being a part of it, always have.
You'll have good events and bad. That's part of it. Don't let the few bad cause you to forget the fun. Plus just racing will improve you. It isn't all the car. I gained 10 seconds a lap from my first race at the track to the next time I raced there. 10 seconds. Same car same everything.
Then some time the fast guys will break down or stay at home and you'll be the fast guy. Suddenly you'll regularly be the fast guy.
Enjoy the sport.
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