In reply to vozproto :
I am surprised about Danny but good for him. I hope he is able to get back in top form.
Maybe Gunther does do more with less? Maybe he was responsible for Rich Energy, and the Oligarch and his kid? I don't know. He may be great at keeping them out of the gutter but it seems like after 8 years they haven't achieved a lot more than being out of the gutter. I could just be being harsh but he is the 4th longest tenured team principal on the Grid after Horner (17 years and 6 world championships), Tost (16 years, I can't really comment on him because I have nothing to add) and Toto (9 years and they did okay during that stretch) but his team hasn't had major success.
He does make Drive to Survive fun though!
NY Nick said:
In reply to vozproto :
I am surprised about Danny but good for him. I hope he is able to get back in top form.
Maybe Gunther does do more with less? Maybe he was responsible for Rich Energy, and the Oligarch and his kid? I don't know. He may be great at keeping them out of the gutter but it seems like after 8 years they haven't achieved a lot more than being out of the gutter. I could just be being harsh but he is the 4th longest tenured team principal on the Grid after Horner (17 years and 6 world championships), Tost (16 years, I can't really comment on him because I have nothing to add) and Toto (9 years and they did okay during that stretch) but his team hasn't had major success.
He does make Drive to Survive fun though!
That's the part that really bugs me about Gunther. How many years did Rich Energy hold them back? Given the path before, it sure seems that it was really bad. Which led them into the russian AND German kid money- don't forget that much of the reason Mick was chosen was for the sponsor money (he said that on DTS). So add another complete waste of a year with those two kids driving the car.
Had Guther got a solid sponsor back before RE- where would they be now?
The other part that I noticed during DtS is Guther's reaction to vehicle problems- he seems to get really angry on screen- does he get mad at his team to? Dunno- but could contribute to the slow down.
In reply to alfadriver :
Guenther's anger, while not seemingly the most professional, I think is far better than him being hamstrung like he was with Mazzapin and his father. I think Guether is finally able to get into his stride and run the team the way he thinks it should.
Take a look at Aston Martin for instance. Stroll can drive/act with impunity because his father is the one funding the team. They should be a far more competitive team than they are especially with Vettel this year and Alonso next year.
LeClerc did it. Tough drive doing a one stopper.
That was a good show by Checo and Charles.
what are peoples thoughts on Max team work at the end? Should he have tried to back up Charles to help Perez?
In reply to NY Nick :
I'm not allowed to have thoughts on max anymore... otherwise I'll get trolled by a certain poster.
NY Nick said:
That was a good show by Checo and Charles.
what are peoples thoughts on Max team work at the end? Should he have tried to back up Charles to help Perez?
Darned if you do...darned if you don't. He screwed up last week but glad he did not enter into the fray to help decide the Checo/Charles outcome.
No opinion necessary. Max cost his teammate P2 in the championship. If you want an opinion I think Seb is a real class act.
06HHR (Forum Supporter) said:
No opinion necessary. Max cost his teammate P2 in the championship. If you want an opinion I think Seb is a real class act.
Some might think Checo had a hand in the final outcome as well. 
We all know I am not a Max fan but I am trying to be objective. That's why I asked. I can see both sides, if he got involved he is an ass. If he doesn't he is an ass. If he had let him pass last week and this week was the same then Checo still would have lost.
So I don't have a strong thought.
Seb is classy. Looking forward to 2023.
In reply to fusion66 :
He did voluntarily give up points and positions throughout the season when it didn't matter at all in the end, so, yea, he had a contribution in that.
Would p2 in the championship done anything for checo or the team? That's a real question.
I mean, I still find it hard to understand why max didn't let him by in Brazil, but does it really matter?
Boring race to end the year. Now time to watch f2 to see if Sargeant makes it into f1 next year!
Proof Max is a richard. Also hammers home that being a great athlete does not make them a great person.
I laughed when Hamilton got back past Perez, the Mercedes one stop strategy with him probably cost Perez the chance at the end. Max had his chance to help Perez but it wasn't at this race (which wasn't a surprise). I was waiting for Max to drive Perez off the track though on lap 1 if Checo had got the jump on him.
It was a shame Hamilton's car let him down, it seemed like he could have had the pace for a podium early on and then something clearly started to go wrong when Carlos drove back past him followed soon by George.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Based on that theory, why does first place even matter? If 2nd doesn't, then first shouldn't.
NY Nick said:
Seb is classy. Looking forward to 2023.
Seb is a great person off track. On track... I haven't been a fan of his since he drove for Toro Rosso. So I'm not all that sad to see him go.
alfadriver said:
In reply to fusion66 :
He did voluntarily give up points and positions throughout the season when it didn't matter at all in the end, so, yea, he had a contribution in that.
I find it interesting that people tend to focus on one decision that contributed to the overall outcome while not acknowledging that there were hundreds if not thousands of decisions throughout the season that had an impact on the final results.
In reply to fusion66 :
Well, that's pretty easy- Perez gave up positions to help Verstappen quite a few times through the season, but Max not only didn't pay it back, he "showed who he is" (Sergio Perez) by explaining why he didn't.
So Perez gave to Max when it didn't matter at all in the end, Max didn't when it could have helped Sergio. So it's easy to remember that one instance.
alfadriver said:
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Based on that theory, why does first place even matter? If 2nd doesn't, then first shouldn't.
The great philosopher Ricky Bobby has some thoughts on that. 
I think the new cars and tires have been a success for close racing but I'm glad this season is over. Red Bull is hobbled for next season (at least in terms of improving car further), Ferrari can potentially come back with an even stronger package because of their engine reliability issues and hopefully Mercedes can come back even stronger so we can have a 3 way fight for the Championship. I look forward to next season
As Lewis was coasting in, I was trying to remember another Merc mechanical failure this year. Then, they said, "First mechanical of the year." That's pretty impressive. It does kinda put the cherry on the top of Lewis season though.
And, in the most shocking news of the season, Ferrari gets the strategy right.
I was thinking that Charle needs to buy Lewis a nice dinner for dealing with Checo rather cruelly, but then thought about last year a few times, and I figure Lewis did it for free.
alfadriver said:
LeClerc did it. Tough drive doing a one stopper.
How close would the championships have been without Ferrari's strategy blunders?
Javelin said:
alfadriver said:
LeClerc did it. Tough drive doing a one stopper.
How close would the championships have been without Ferrari's strategy blunders?
Ferrari's strategy takes the cake this year but both of their drivers made costly mistakes as well. I feel like if Mercedes had their car at the start of the season things would have been a lot tighter at the top with Max and Redbull
