FORMULA ONE - 2019

BrewCity20 said:

In reply to David S. Wallens :

I'll be there, first F1 race ever. Pretty pumped

Cool. Once I have my details, I'll share them here. 

In reply to David S. Wallens :

So FYI chris taylor race services are doing their parking deal again $20 a day or $50 for the weekend. Check their FB page. They're up behind the helipad grass area off T1. Nice short walk for cheap parking. 

I may or may not go down for sunday, TBD. 

That race was pretty damn good!

Unexpected that Mercedes finished 1, 2.  

Leclerc continues to impress me.  

This season is fun to watch!

Interesting race until Vettel broke. Nothing happened after that other than Albon moving up the field which mostly was not shown. 

Looking forward to Suzuka. 

Vettel is doing his part to have some bad inter team BS, as I heard his comments. So I don’t at all feel bad that he broke, more relief that his race was blown. 

For LeCerc, bad timing for that to happen, as it gave the race to Hamilton and Mercedes. 

I wish we got to see more of Albon, as his continued improvement both justifies the move and should make Kvyat quiet. 

That was an exciting 33 laps of racing. I wonder what would have happened if Seb hadn't broken down? I know Vettel is going to come under fire for not swapping positions with LeClerc but he had pulled such a huge lead, he would have compromised a Ferrari 1-2 finish by slowing down so much to let LeClerc by. Charles simply wasn't quick enough and was the 3rd quickest car for most of the race. Anyways, I'm thrilled for Lewis

It was stupid for Ferrari to make promises about switching positions.  Seb passed Charles clean, pulled away, should have been supported as the race leader.  Stupid Italian politics.

I was trying to figure out what Mercs plan was for the medium tires at the start, but I guess they were counting on what happened.

Really a shame that Seb blew up. Lewis fan here, but I like speed to be rewarded, and Seb had the speed he needed.

Streetwiseguy said:

It was stupid for Ferrari to make promises about switching positions.  Seb passed Charles clean, pulled away, should have been supported as the race leader.  Stupid Italian politics.

I don't think I'd label this politics.  Vettel wasn't supposed to let LeClerc by as payback for the last race, he was supposed to let him by as payback for getting the tow off the start.  Look at it this way:  if the drivers are all just racing as individuals and ignoring team stuff, LeClerc isn't going to let one of his rivals have the tow all the way down the straight because it just lets them do what Vettel did, pass for the lead.  So absent any agreement, he's going to move back and forth, splitting the tow effect between Hamilton and Vettel.  If you assume everyone gets the same kind of start, the result of this is that they go into turn 1 in the same order they started, with the two Ferraris being 1 and 3.

Obviously Ferrari would rather have their cars 1 and 2, so they set up a deal.  LeClerc tows Vettel the whole distance, Vettel gets the lead, then Vettel gives it back to LeClerc.  End result is that Vettel passes Hamilton, LeClerc stays where he starts, Ferrari has maximized their team points -- win-win-win.  Only issue that Vettel isn't the kind of racer to do that, he wants to pass them both and keep the lead for himself (duh -- multi-21, anyone?).  So he takes the lead and then backstabs LeClerc by not swapping back and it blows up in their faces.

Someone in the Ferrari strategy team seems to love these kinds of little games, they try it a lot but it rarely works.

I was laughing out loud as Ferrari held Vettel out there for a couple of laps to put him behind Leclerc. Don't listen to our strategy calls? We'll make it happen anyway.

I'm not sure that we would have had an epic fight if Vettel had kept going. Lewis had a 6 second lead over Leclerc and fresh softs at that point, while Leclerc was on older tires. With clean air, I'll bet Lewis could have stayed out front. It was really interesting to see how Leclerc just couldn't get past Bottas even with DRS, Mercedes had the pace where they needed it on the track to stay clear of the high speed Ferrari.

apparently the commentator remarked that Hamilton upon taking the lead had won every Sochi race he'd led.  Well.  Um.  Kind of necessary.

Give me MurrayMuddletalk anyday.  That was also the most exciting thing I saw/heard.  

There’s a difference between “led every race he’s won” and “won every race he’s led”. The former is duh, the latter is pretty impressive. 

Keith Tanner said:

I was laughing out loud as Ferrari held Vettel out there for a couple of laps to put him behind Leclerc. Don't listen to our strategy calls? We'll make it happen anyway.

I'm not sure that we would have had an epic fight if Vettel had kept going. Lewis had a 6 second lead over Leclerc and fresh softs at that point, while Leclerc was on older tires. With clean air, I'll bet Lewis could have stayed out front. It was really interesting to see how Leclerc just couldn't get past Bottas even with DRS, Mercedes had the pace where they needed it on the track to stay clear of the high speed Ferrari.

Lewis was still on old tires when he was ahead.  He needed the VSC to get ahead.  Not sure about Chuck giving up track position to Bottas, though.  He had the speed to keep second, and he was never going to pass Lewis, no matter the tires.

Fun race. The need for Vettel to have a slipstream is basic team racing. The issue I saw was Ferrari not planning on what to do after very well. Vettel isn't an honorable person so expecting him to give the place back was just dumb. They should have simply planned to swap at the pitstops. But Leclerc had a point that if he got the place back on lap 3 then he may have had more pace. He was faster than Vettel most of the weekend. 

In the past I have watched a teammate purposely give the draft to another team's driver to put their teammate at a disadvantage. Leclerc could have tried to keep Vettel out of the draft and give it to Hamilton. 

The F1 TV service gave the Russians lots of Kvyat coverage. So we missed out on some fun racing. 

Gasly didn't make a good name for himself today. He defended from Albon too hard and thus used up his own tires. Lost many places. 

Sainz is a great driver, but like his dad, he seems uncomfortable or awkward in interviews. The Sky guys are loving up Norris but Sainz is definitely the better driver at McLaren. 

Engine issues cost Ferrari another win today. I due hope Albon gets a surprise win at Suzuka. 

In reply to codrus :

I say, tough bananas if it is not helpful to start on pole.  Seb passed him clean, and Chuck would have needed some dramatic blocking to keep him back. I wasn't thinking about the previous race, but that adds to the Italian politics.

Let them race.  Smack their peepees if they take each other out, but leave it at that

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

If he pulled out in front of Lewis before all of that, it would have prevented Vettel from passing.  But he was ordered (apparently) to give the draft to Seb, who jumped all over it.  Sure, let them race, but I don't see Charles ever giving Seb anything that could let him pass.   When team orders gives the better chance to the following car- yea, I don't see that happening.

And given Seb's history, that means that before the season is out, he will crash out LeClerc. 

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Correct. Hamilton was on his starting tire the mediums while Leclerc had come out behind Bottas on mediums after stopping first. Bottas would probably be kept out to delay the Ferraris long enough to give Hamilton a chance to pit and come back at the Ferraris on softs. So Bottas probably was the luckiest, as the best strategy for MB was to put him into 4th. 

The Ferrari engine issue gave MB the win and pitting Leclerc gave MB the 1-2. But it was the best move for Ferrari to try and win. 

alfadriver said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

If he pulled out in front of Lewis before all of that, it would have prevented Vettel from passing.  But he was ordered (apparently) to give the draft to Seb, who jumped all over it.  Sure, let them race, but I don't see Charles ever giving Seb anything that could let him pass.   When team orders gives the better chance to the following car- yea, I don't see that happening.

Exactly.  This wasn't a gift to LeClerc from the team, this was a trade with Vettel.  I'll help you pass Hamilton if you'll agree not to take my pole position in the first few laps.  It was a deal, one that Vettel welched on after he got what he wanted.

Advan046 said:

Correct. Hamilton was on his starting tire the mediums while Leclerc had come out behind Bottas on mediums after stopping first. Bottas would probably be kept out to delay the Ferraris long enough to give Hamilton a chance to pit and come back at the Ferraris on softs. So Bottas probably was the luckiest, as the best strategy for MB was to put him into 4th. 

Furthermore, one of the reasons why the Mercedes were down on pace compared to the Ferrari in the first stint is that they were on the medium tires instead of the softs.  The whole point to running the harder tires at the start is so that you can run longer and take advantage of stuff that happens -- a safety car is expected at a street circuit like Sochi, Mercedes planned for it and reaped the rewards when it happened.

Streetwiseguy said:

Keith Tanner said:

I was laughing out loud as Ferrari held Vettel out there for a couple of laps to put him behind Leclerc. Don't listen to our strategy calls? We'll make it happen anyway.

I'm not sure that we would have had an epic fight if Vettel had kept going. Lewis had a 6 second lead over Leclerc and fresh softs at that point, while Leclerc was on older tires. With clean air, I'll bet Lewis could have stayed out front. It was really interesting to see how Leclerc just couldn't get past Bottas even with DRS, Mercedes had the pace where they needed it on the track to stay clear of the high speed Ferrari.

Lewis was still on old tires when he was ahead.  He needed the VSC to get ahead.  Not sure about Chuck giving up track position to Bottas, though.  He had the speed to keep second, and he was never going to pass Lewis, no matter the tires.

Yes, Lewis needed the VSC. I thought Vettel was the full safety afterwards, but that was the Williams when I think back. So my bad. 

Not that I'm surprised Ferrari would have a questionable strategy but it was amazing how cocky they got after just a few wins.

The whole Vettel/LeClerc situation reeked of a team that figured they could choose who was going to win, not one that needed to put together a solid race to secure the win.

I agree the Vettel likely reneged on his end of the deal, but I am surprised that Ferrari was willing to have him give up 3-ish seconds to allow LeClerc to pass when Hamilton was still on his heels (and LeClerc was lapping third fastest at the time if I remember correctly).

They needed to worry about getting well ahead of the Mercs before they could start worrying about team orders. I guess I blame the whole issue on the strategiest in Ferrari who made the unnecessary promise to LeClerc that the switch back would happen right away.

In reply to BrewCity20 :

I think the problem with F1 was clear.. LeClerc was not able to push up on Vettel without destroying his tyres. Especially since it was supposed to be a plan to give him the place by the DRS activation lap. LeClerc couldn't even get close to passing Bottas. Let alone his teammate in equal powered cars.  So he is trusting his team. Showing that trust is huge. For now and 2020.

Vettel letting Leclerc by would have  been somewhat easy. They could have held off Hamilton ok. Not easy but it was the deal. 

I tried to explain it to my auto racing ignorant cousin. The best I could do was tell them to imagine if the wide receiver players on an American football team started trying to intercept passes intended for their teammate(s).

Advan046 said:

In reply to BrewCity20 :

I think the problem with F1 was clear.. LeClerc was not able to push up on Vettel without destroying his tyres. Especially since it was supposed to be a plan to give him the place by the DRS activation lap. LeClerc couldn't even get close to passing Bottas. Let alone his teammate in equal powered cars.  So he is trusting his team. Showing that trust is huge. For now and 2020.

Vettel letting Leclerc by would have  been somewhat easy. They could have held off Hamilton ok. Not easy but it was the deal. 

I tried to explain it to my auto racing ignorant cousin. The best I could do was tell them to imagine if the wide receiver players on an American football team started trying to intercept passes intended for their teammate(s).

 

Seems like everyone misses that part- they all use the "Vettel was faster" claim- not even seeing the multiple examples of how the leading car clearly had the advantage- Hamilton taking fastest lap (pretty easily)- who struggled behind the two Ferraris, LeClerc struggling behind Bottas,  When the cars are that equal, then the wash from the leading car dominates for a few seconds of trailing- which really destroys tires.

Vettel was faster because he was in clean and cool air.  That's it.  He took advantage of the agreement and ran with it.  Good for him, bad for the team.  I think there's a good possibility that Vettel will try to take advantage of LeClerc later this year, and they will crash.  Charles has shown that he sees things once, and then changes his tactics.   This will be no different than how he drives around Max now.

So Japan this weekend looks to be very threatened by a typhoon on Saturday.  Just watched the pre weekend press conference with a couple of the drivers- most of them really think Saturday will all be washed out.

What happens if qualifying is canceled?

I think the rule is that practice times will be used to determine starting order, and if no practice times have been set then start order is by championship points. It would be a VERY interesting race if none of the teams get the data they need on Friday/Saturday

In the past, In Japan even, they's held Qualifying Sunday morning and the rece as schedualed Sunday afternoon.  I'm sure that's what will happen here.

Who has the most rabid F1 fan base, Japan, Italy or the United Kingdom?