Fuel without ethanol?

There is a gas station in town that advertises fuel without ethanol. Do you think that it it makes a difference? Should I be filling up with this stuff instead? The price difference is not bad at all. The car is a 91 BMW 318, and I use premium in it normally.

It shouldn't make any difference in how the car runs, although you may notice a little bit better mileage (which will probably be offset by the higher price of the non-oxygenated gas.) Do you really need to run premium in that engine? I would have thought BMW rated it for regular.

If they claim it, it's a lie. All fuel sold in the US is required to be E10. They are not required to report anything below E15, at least for now.

Eric

All fuel is E10? When did that start? Here in MI, The pumps are requred by law to be labeled. I know more and more states are requireing it, but this is the fist I've heard of a Fed law. Yes, in my opinion, E10 results in poorer mileage and reduced power. Some cars don't run as smooth. Its like buying a watered down drink.... Now E85 is a different story. Here, it's (in theroy) being put into a car that has been optimized for its use. While the milage is much worse, at least you get some extra power. The key here is to have E85 for 1/2 the price of regular gas (since you need twice as much) .

I also have a couple of Mobil stations that advertise no ethanol gas. I'd not heard that it was a law that gas HAD to have ethanol, only that it was allowed.

It's called the Renewable Fuel Standard, and started to phase in permanently in 2008- http://www.epa.gov/otaq/renewablefuels/420f10007.htm - this is in reaction to the SC rule that EPA does have authority to regulate CO2, so this is supposed to put in renewable fuels into the normal fuel blends.

More importantly, the older Reformulated Gas law specifies that all fuel needs to be 2% oxygenated, which does result in roughly E10. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg.htm That was a follow up to the local allowances to let areas to use Oxygenates to reduce emissions, and then pushing that basic fuel across the country.

Gearhead- yes, pumps are required to be labled, but the requirement is ONLY over 15% alcohol- either E15 or M15. Under that, it's not required- so E10 does not show up. E10 isn't much different than spec fuel- it's a very minor loss of economy, and pretty equal in emissions.

Wonk- yes, Ethanol is subsidized, but it is now required to use. But E10 probably won't cause major issues.

Basically, the "spec" fuel for new car development starting in 2010 is E10.

E-

In Minnesota 95% of the pumps are at least e10. There are a few stations that have one pump tucked around the side of the building that dispenses straight gas, but they are mainly there for the benefit of seasonal engines (lawn mowers, snow blowers, outboards, etc.)

Having said that, I've been running e10 gas in all my old cars, bikes, lawn mower, etc. for over 20 years with out an issue.

We have several marinas and one Exxon that advertise 100% gasoline. A lot of older outboards and I/Os don't like ethanol, not to mention the water absorption problem.

All of the pumps around here say , at least 10%. One Mobil station that was selling straight gasoline finally switched to E-10. He said it was to much of a hassle to find straight stuff. Supposedly, E-10 will get about 2% less mpg. Like stuart said, I have been running it in my vehicles and yard machines for years with no problems at all.

Well, just to see if there is any difference, I'll fill it up with the supposed non-ethanol gasoline. I'll try and take close notes on MPG, cost, etc.

stuart in mn wrote: Do you really need to run premium in that engine? I would have thought BMW rated it for regular.

Yes, and yes. The M42 was rated for regular for all applications except the convertible, according to the owners manual. I'm assuming for the added weight.

I figure ethanol can absorb 10% of it's weight in water, so 10% or 10% means the most water you'll have in the gas is 1%. I don't know how that would affect the running of an engine but 1% water doesn't sound like too much.

I think the bigger deal with ethanol is it is a solvent and will dissolve crud in the fuel system. This crud will inevitably find its way into some where it doesn't belong and cause trouble. I have to blame something for the expensive CIS parts that are starting to die on my car, right?

Cars make in the past 20 yrs have fuel systems that can handle 10% ethanol. It's in older cars that you can have a problem, especially if they sit alot, then corrosion could lead to messed up carbs or fuel injectors.

The idea that ethanol reduces power is not always true. Ethanol has a higher octane then reg. gasoline, the problem is that you need to retune your engine for it. If you have a knock sensor and a distributor you need to advance your timing, If like many new car you don't even have a distributor then you have to get into the computer to make that change.

Those gearheads into turbos and tuning them for more power, LOVE E85!

Toyman01 wrote: We have several marinas and one Exxon that advertise 100% gasoline. A lot of older outboards and I/Os don't like ethanol, not to mention the water absorption problem.

Technically, it's not legal to run marina fuel in a car. No road tax. And it's not regulated the same. Much like av-gas.

the station right down the street from home finally gave in and started selling E10 87 octane ( he claims the 89 & 91 are still "real gas")

all I know is my '01 Integra lost 4+ mpg with the switch , my '95 Impreza lost 2+ and my "91 CRX lost nearly 8 mpg

and he had been equaling the cut rate stations on price before the switch...

Maybe in Mi. the pumps don't need to be labeled, but here in upstate N.Y. all 10% ethanol gas must be labeled as such. And I don't care if it "burns cleaner", I KNOW I burn a lot more of it than I did before with plain old real gas. In the Sube, where I used to get 28mpg, I now get 25-26. In the old 733, I used to get 24-25 highway, I now get 22. For the 911, I go to the local airport for my gas. City driving results in even more than a 10% drop in economy. I think this is part of the global warming farce, but you'll never be able to convince the believers, in spite of the facts.

There is a station near me that advertises "no ethanol". They only sell 87. (All three buttons on the pump dispense 87). There price is generally equal or less than their neighbors.

I consistently see a 10% gain in my 97 Legacy when I run a full tank from there. I almost always wait till I hit empty to fill up, about 90% of my fill-ups are 12.5-13.5 gallons in a 14.5 gallon tank.

There is a gas station on US129 down by the lake just before you hit The Dragon that advertises 100% gasoline. Awesome.

AH, that explains it.

Where I normally get gas (the closest to my house) is a Mobil that has no signs saying the ethenal percentage. I get abut 13mpg in my jeep. I saw a new station that was WAY cheaper than everyon esle, I got gat there and all the pumps said 15% ethanol. I got 10mpg :(

I will use the Mobil until they switch over. then, if they go to 15% Ethanol I will um, take drastic measures. (I am not sure what I will do then...)

I have heard that ethanol is not to good for seals and o-rings. While I have not had too much problem with my four-stroke engines, my two-cycle premix engines seem to be crapping out prematurely.

I have noticed that the diaphragms and seals in the carb are loosing there elasticity and creating leaks. When I raised this with both a knowledgeable Sears Craftsman sales person and a motorcycle tech, they have said that they have experienced the same thing and attribute it to the ethanol in the fuel.

There are some sites that document sources for "pure gasoline". http://pure-gas.org/ and http://www.buyrealgas.com/ Unfortunately there are none in NJ where I live.

As for labeling requirements, it appears to be a State issue. http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html

Holy Undead Thread, Batman!

Possible Canoe?

nearly all the gas stations where i live offer both non-ethanol and e10, and they are labelled as such.

In reply to mtn:

OK, I give up. I have to ask, What is a Canoe? Is it like a Troll?

Rick wrote: In reply to mtn: OK, I give up. I have to ask, What is a Canoe? Is it like a Troll?

Canoe is from the old boards before they had the spambot detecting software like they do now. We'd type "Canoe" (a word not often used), and the forum staff would do a search each night and delete out any "canoes", or spambots.

Cliff Notes: Canoe=spam.

the fuel we get from countrymark used to be no ethanol, and may still be......our old farm trucks run like E36 M3 on the e15 most stations around here have.....even on premium.

the countrymark fuel works perfectly well in them, then again, its something around 100 octane....

belteshazzar wrote: nearly all the gas stations where i live offer both non-ethanol and e10, and they are labelled as such.

Here's the drink buying post- replying to a zombie thread from arguably a canoe.