German? Italian? Swedish?

I have been looking for the perfect car or at least a perfect excuse for one.

Craigslist has given me some possibilities. I though I would come here to ask this question because I figure I would get the best input, I hope. I did ask this guy over at a model car forum I go to and considering he blew up an RX8, what a car guy! he might know a thing or two and I know another that works at a VW dealership and owns 2 Golfs and an Audi so he's got me on a German fix

I need this to be my daily driver but I also want it to be a weekend racer too. I love rally so I would love it to be a hillclimb/rally/rally x or an auto cross car. Input on these cars is well appreciated and especially if you own/owned/ or know an owner. Suggestions welcome! Will show pics if needed

1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, says it's beautiful and runs good and inspected $1650

1985 Audi 4000 Quattro, "daily driver for 2 years. Mainly bought it for the gas mileage and the fact that its ALL WHEEL DRIVE. Gas mileage wise it gets 28 to 35 per gallon and that was mainly longer drives. The car is in good shape for its age. It comes with 1 extra set of wheels. I just put a new fuel pump and filter on it to the tune of almost $400. It is currently inspected. It has power windows, sun roof and locks." $1700

1990 Golf, 5 speed, 120,000 $3000

1988 Golf GTI 16v DOHC, 5 speed, $2000 negotiable

1989 Jetta 1.6 Diesel, 175,500, $2300

1979 Rabbit 86,500, needs cv joint $1500

1975 Bug 62,000, new wheel cylinder and muffler, battery, floors repaired, some rust around rear windows and doors but repairable, starts and runs and moves but hasn't been driven in a while $1000

1985-86 Celica Supra, need to check it out

Or a Miata if I can find one cheap!

or a couple Volvo 850's love them 5 cylinders!

Anymore possibilities are welcome thanks!

RWD Volvo Turbo. Find one with a 5 speed, add chips and MBC and have a blast!

The Alfa would be very tempting if it would start every day. But an '88 GTi is hard for that price is pretty sweet.

NickF40 wrote: 1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6, says it's beautiful and runs good and inspected $1650 -If its in good shape this would be my pick. But, they take alot of maintaince, timing belt every 30k miles, etc. Cllutches and windshields are $$$$$$$ (about $600 for a windshield, close to $1k for a clutch). It wont ever be a competitive autocross car, and the transmissions are fragile. I drive a milano (same car but a little bit better made and a 4 door sedan body) everyday and I like it though. They are too low and fragile to rallycross too. 1985 Audi 4000 Quattro. Not bad, dont know much about them , but id drive one. 1990 Golf, 5 speed, 120,000 $3000 same as below, but with engine management that is not really able to be modified. Easy to swap in a ABA 2.0 from a MK3 though. 1988 Golf GTI 16v DOHC, 5 speed, $2000 negotiable Depends on the condition its in. I have driven a modiified 86 GTI and it was a really nice car. I have driven some worn out stock ones, and they were without a doubt the worst cars i have ever driven. They do handle quite well in the dirt though. 1989 Jetta 1.6 Diesel, 175,500, $2300 Same as above, but realy slow, and 55 mpg. Its worth easily twice that price if its nice. It would be sold in 5 minutes for $2300 around here. 1979 Rabbit 86,500, needs cv joint $1500 Probably the most likely to be a competitive autocross car out of the ones you listed. 1975 Bug -IMO not the right car for the uses you mentioned 1985-86 Celica Supra, need to check it out Blown head gaskets and 18 mpg, no thanks. Or a Miata if I can find one cheap! or a couple Volvo 850's love them 5 cylinders! Anymore possibilities are welcome thanks!

What are you currently driving?

It sounds like you want to abuse the crap out of whatever you get. Auto-X, Rally-X, and open track? I would not do all that with an only car.

Also, if you want a car to be able to run in all those venues, it probably won't be competitive in any.

I'd second the Turbo-brick. That seems like it would be the most likely to survive, and since you won't be competitive anyway, would at least be endlessly entertaining. I'd also suggest looking at an E30 or a P71.

Salanis wrote: What are you currently driving? It sounds like you want to abuse the crap out of whatever you get. Auto-X, Rally-X, and open track? I would not do all that with an only car. Also, if you want a car to be able to run in all those venues, it probably won't be competitive in any. I'd second the Turbo-brick. That seems like it would be the most likely to survive, and since you won't be competitive anyway, would at least be endlessly entertaining. I'd also suggest looking at an E30 or a P71.

Well I really want to do rally/hillclimb/rally X I just gave other series I am currently driving nothing so I guess I'm a little too optimistic! Thanks for the suggestion, I have had people say that and this model car buddy said that he loves Turbo bricks so maybe an 850 wagon. I do want to compete though.

I looked at some 325 and 318i, I love them but parts? Striaght pipe P71, mmmmmm not really legal though but might do well offroad

I don't believe the 28-35 mpg of the quattro those audi 5cyls were not exactly effecient

really?

An Audi 4000 Quattro, from the mid-late '80s is EPA rated (under the old, more "optimistic" rules) at 22 to 25 MPG. There is no way this car will attain high '20s/low '30s unless you coast...ALOT.

I don't race in any event, so my advice is pretty much worthless, but from what has been posted so far, I'd go for the Golfs. The '90 NON GTI 1st choice....good tuneability and even pretty good torque, stock, and the GTI 2nd choice. OOPS, I forgot about the Digifant. so not sure when it was used or it's effects on tuning.

Digifant was good though? I was actually leaning toward a Golf a little thanks to my buddy and he said you can't go wrong with 1st through 3rd gen Golfs, mainly 3rd. They both seem nice though

I just LOVE the sound of a 5 cylinder and Audi has always been my choice but Volvo is also, Bricks I want to get ITB's for whatever car I get http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZP_6WE0p0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pwVZ62HJAQ with Jenvey's! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVNVJeXUycI

this is what I wouldn't mind to do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTco7MDEU_k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyX6yiXKga0

I know it seems like I am asking alot but I also was looking at a 190 styles Mercedes, gas and diesel

Digifant=it stays stock or gets swapped to something else. The good thing is it will have the right wiring to swap in an ABA 2.0 if you want. Just keep in mind that they are horrible cars to drive when they are worn out, so it may be a project.

I wouldnt rally-x an E30.. look under the front of one (at the oilpan) and you will understand.

I shattered mine and it was a bit of a pain to replace (without pulling the engine, thankfully i have small hands/arms, but i still got bloody knuckles) and oilpans are about $150 a pop on a 6cyl.

Apexcarver wrote: I wouldnt rally-x an E30.. look under the front of one (at the oilpan) and you will understand. I shattered mine and it was a bit of a pain to replace (without pulling the engine, thankfully i have small hands/arms, but i still got bloody knuckles) and oilpans are about $150 a pop on a 6cyl.

well I guess I should say that I won't ALWAYS be Rally Xing

Neons are good too. Most of the cars you mentioned require quite a bit of work to keep running, something to keep in mind if you dont have alot of tools and time to work on it, or experience fixing things.

I will third/fourth/fifth the turbo brick. I own an italian, german, and a swedish car.. all I need is french and italian to complete the set

The Alfa is the most exotic, the GTI is the most fun and the 4000 quattro is the most reliable (all this in my biased opinion).

I love Alfas, but I've never known an Alfa that could be consistently used as a daily driver (despite protests to the contrary from die-hard enthusiasts).

The GTI is light, fun -- and sitting on the best chassis VW ever built (there's my opinion again). Mostly solid cars, but they definitely have a lot of pesky annoyances.

The 4k quattro is a slower, heavier, less fun, but not un-fun version of the GTI. It will never have the light, tossable, fun feel of the GTI no matter what you do to it. It is better built though. A friend of mine had one with more than 400k miles and went for years without even changing the oil. I had an '85 4ksq that never had any issues either, but got bored and bought an 84 GTI.

From these three, I'd get the GTI if it's in really nice shape. But look at the quattro and see if it floats your boat. Both it and the GTI should suit your purposes well.

+1 on the Brick.

Last month I swapped my '85 GTV6 for a manual '86 745 turbo. I adore it.

Although I think a 190D done up all DTM-like would be a blast, I really love my Volvo. Nobody wonders what kind of car it is and I don't get all the snotnosed punks in their Monte Carlos and Grand Prix GTPs always trying to show off at traffic lights like I do in the GTO. (In the Alfa, I only got punks in E30s trying to show off at lights.)

Of the choices listed for what you want to do, the A2 chassis VWs are probably the best bet. They are almost the Swiss Army Knife of cars.

A 5cyl Audi can get the mileage mentioned but I don't think I quattro will do it. My Coupe GT would get high 20s all the time in regular driving and over 30 on a highway trip. But, they aren't really fast. They feel faster than they are because they handle pretty well.

E30 BMWs are tremendous cars, but not for non-paved racing. Parts for them are actually no worse than VW stuff.

The Alfa has equally bad aluminum parts dangling from it's lower extremities and I wouldn't select that for anything with 'rally' in the name. It will also teach you to be an Italian car mechanic, but that engine is worth the PITA moments.

I use an Alfa consistently as a daily driver. So long as you keep on top of the maintenance, they're dead nuts reliable. My personal experience only extends to the 4cyl twin-cam, but I do know others who run the V6 models every day without issue.

If it's a reasonably well sorted, non-rusty example, I'd jump on that GTV6. It's certainly cheap enough.

However, I'd say the Golf is going to be best suited to motorsport.

The Mk2 VW really does sound like the best idea for what you want to use it for, as long as you are willing to do a bunch of work to it right away to make it into a decent car ( or find a good one). The ones I have looked at for sale would have at the least needed suspension bushings (at least in the front), dampers (preferably vr6 strut mounts and R32 solid rubber bushings, and bilstien struts), tires, at least bleeding the brakes if not replaing pads and rotors, etc, rebuilt shifter linkage (about $120 for parts and requites removal of the exhaust). Also they often dont want to idle right (especailly the 8v ones) for reasons I have yet to figure out. Its also quite possible that it will need a clutch (if the valve cover is leaking and getting oil in it), and the transmissions dont nescessraily hold up to alot of abuse (like driving with worn out shifter linkage).

There are tons of modificatons available for them, both from corrados, Mk3s and passats in the junkyard, and aftermarket stuff. They are good cars, and I thought seriously about getting one, but most of them need quite alot of work to be ready for daily use.

Luke wrote: I use an Alfa consistently as a daily driver. So long as you keep on top of the maintenance, they're dead nuts reliable. My personal experience only extends to the 4cyl twin-cam, but I do know others who run the V6 models every day without issue.

I went to school driving a fiat spider everyday.. 30 miles a day, back and forth from home to school. Yes, it required a lot of maintance, but it only left me stranded once when a relativly new U joint exploded while pulling out of the school parking lot.

Italian cars CAN be reliable, but it takes more work than everything but what the french can build

I have driven my alfa everyday for the past year, and while it has never worked quite right the whole time for one reason or another, it has only had one mechanical failure bad enough to keep it from being driven, which was cheap and easy to fix. It would be a terrible idea for a first car though, or for anyone that doesnt fix everything themself rather than paying to have it done.

Luke and mad_machine reminded me, I probably should note that I did daily-drive that GTV6 for a while when I had it. Once the little bugs were worked out it didn't give me a single problem.

Just remember to clean every ground when you give it a tune-up and then half of their legendary flakiness just vanishes.

I would LOVE to see a 4kq or 190 tearing it up. These things are drying up.

Spare parts for the audi are about gone from junkyards (but man was that the car to have 10 years ago if you were a junk yard cruiser) and the 190's are thinning out a bit from the yards, but are still present. So I think you will just have to buy two of each

Vw's are going to be good cars, but thats why you always seem them at events. Think about racing a 5 speed 190 while wearing a tweed cap and smoking a pipe, or playing with the differential lock on the 4kq in competition.

Why is everyone convinced that every supra has head gasket problems just because Toyota issued the wrong torque numbers for the head studs in the BGB on the MKiii Supras ONLY?