Good day for Factory Five

Cotton wrote: I want a 300SL Gullwing replica with a nice modern AMG engine.

I'd rather avoid the overly complex and expensive to maintain AMG drivetrain for more modern suspension design. Just me though.

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote:

Cotton wrote: I want a 300SL Gullwing replica with a nice modern AMG engine.

I'd rather avoid the overly complex and expensive to maintain AMG drivetrain for more modern suspension design. Just me though.

Yeah I hear you. At first I was thinking LS with a 4l60e or something, but I would prefer an AMG engine if possible. I'm not too worried about the maintenance or parts, but the initial buy in is a real killer.

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote:

Cotton wrote: I want a 300SL Gullwing replica with a nice modern AMG engine.

I'd rather avoid the overly complex and expensive to maintain AMG drivetrain for more modern suspension design. Just me though.

IS it the engines that are a PIA to maintain or is it the other systems on the modern AMG's? I thought the engines were rock solid.

That's a swap kit - there's one like it for the 2.0 EcoBoost and (just announced) the 2.3. Kits like this tend to have stripped down operating systems and will not usually pass emissions monitoring tests. For example, the non-E-Rod GM kits don't have cat or evap monitoring and may have trouble going through an OBD-II test.

Am I the only one who thought about the all aluminum 68 Nova, MGB tubs, and Mustang stampings in regards to all this? I had hoped for "reissues" of old cars. Like, I can buy a complete, correct in every detail 65 Mustang fastback, and that is OK because some people still drive 65 Mustang fastbacks, and every part is still made(maybe).

wheelsmithy wrote: Am I the only one who thought about the all aluminum 68 Nova, MGB tubs, and Mustang stampings in regards to all this? I had hoped for "reissues" of old cars. Like, I can buy a complete, correct in every detail 65 Mustang fastback, and that is OK because some people still drive 65 Mustang fastbacks, and every part is still made(maybe).

Oh man. What an idea. A new MGB with an Ecoboost in it

So basically, the LE50. It's an MZR (Duratec) and not an Ecoboost, but that's pretty much what you're talking about.

nderwater wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: It's just a real shame that it's limited to cars that look like old cars. I'm not sure I understand why.

This may have been to keep independent niche car companies (Mclaren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, Nobel, Ultima, etc.) from gaining a backdoor that allows them to skirt all the usual crash testing and safety regulations for new vehicles.

I understand that is their reasoning but why allow one guy to have a backdoor to get in and not the other?

The government has cut out any ability to start up as a car manufacturers in the US.

Agreed. Koenigssegg could build a 1000 hp Cobra or 917-30 replica and sell it, but not their current cars. Which is odd.

So tell the consumers that that they need to change the laws. NHTSA and the EPA are us, after all.

The only ones who would benefit are the massively rich, as they would be the ones who benefitted by small volume companies/ start ups.

Even still, I'm aware of some start ups in the US. I need to visit one of them someday.

In reply to alfadriver:

Please names of start ups?

One off custom motorcycles or trikes are easy to license and insure but put a fourth wheel on and you are out of luck. Sorry, just upset I'm allowed to be an unsafe motorcyclist but not allowed to make my own safety decision when I purchase a 4 wheeled vehicle.

Kepler was making a Hybrid super car out of a Ecoboost engine.

Falcon- http://falconf7.com/

Rezvani- http://www.rezvanimotors.com/

Trion Supercars- http://www.trionsupercars.com/

Rossion- http://rossioncars.com/

Mosler still has the MT900

Saleen is still around- http://saleen.com/

SSC- http://www.sscnorthamerica.com/ultimate-aero.php

Lots of choices.

Keith Tanner wrote: Agreed. Koenigssegg could build a 1000 hp Cobra or 917-30 replica and sell it, but not their current cars. Which is odd.

Only if they pass emissions standards for the 1000hp engine.

It's a classic American law of "Don't Hurt Your Neighbors". If it passes smog so you don't hurt other people, then by all means drive a death trap. It also means that old "original" cars will be the only chassis that can skip the smog tests.

Well if we are duplicating older cars how about something like this with current V8?

mr2peak wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Agreed. Koenigssegg could build a 1000 hp Cobra or 917-30 replica and sell it, but not their current cars. Which is odd.

Only if they pass emissions standards for the 1000hp engine. It's a classic American law of "Don't Hurt Your Neighbors". If it passes smog so you don't hurt other people, then by all means drive a death trap. It also means that old "original" cars will be the only chassis that can skip the smog tests.

Sure, but if they get it to meet smog, it's okay. As long as it looks like something old.

Remember this is only for turn-key cars. You can still build yourself a new Deuce and avoid smog, depending on your state's regs.

Tha Californian SB100 has a provision in it for cars that don't look like Cobras. It's a pity this law doesn't as well.

Keith Tanner wrote: I don't think this will change how individually built cars will be registered in various states. It's aimed to allow for easier manufacturing of turn-key cars. If it prompts Ford to come up with an E-Rod equivalent to the 2.0 Ecoboost, that'll open up some interesting possibiities.

Exactly. No more loopholes like Caterham shipping cars as CKD kits with pre-1966 drivetrains. They could be sold in the US now as turnkey cars.

alfadriver wrote: They way I read it, everything that is in either a Mustang (for a Cobra) or a Focus (for a Caterham) would have to be retained- from the complete catalysts system to the tiny little valve that is used for the purge system. The shapes of the hard stuff can be redone- but all of the hardware would have to be retained. (realistically, there's not as much stuff as most think- the bulky parts are the vapor recovery/purge system) The one thing I wonder- what's the burden of proof. We have to demonstrate full useful life ability. I would be willing to bet that this will not- just as long as proof (including signed statements attesting to the hardware being there) that it's complete, and lab tests demonstrating it. Being that the EPA already has the codes- it would be super easy for them to see if it's being cheated or not.

Wouldn't the burden of proof be "We installed everything that (Ford/GM/whoever) engineered with the same layout pneumatically, hydraulically, and electrically" and that would be that?

And yes, all those "smog bits" take up shockingly little space, if you have a nice neat evap system like GM or Ford use. The cats bolt to the engine, the airpump if required sits "somewhere" (GM stuffs it under the cab near the fuel tank on some models) and all that is left is evap. Some of those Japanese or European evap designs look like they were specifically designed by Rube Goldberg to avoid infringing a patent. GM is stupid simple, they have a purge solenoid usually mounted right on the intake manifold, a vapor line going aft, and a vent solenoid mounted on the charcoal canister which is stuffed in any convenient 8x8x12 hideyhole in the back of the vehicle. Also usually a fuel tank pressure sensor, which is often part of the fuel sending unit assembly.

So for the purposes of the swap, you would need to run some wires to the back of the vehicle, add a couple hoses here and there, and find a spot for the canister.

Knurled wrote: Wouldn't the burden of proof be "We installed everything that (Ford/GM/whoever) engineered with the same layout pneumatically, hydraulically, and electrically" and that would be that?

I don't think it's that much of a burden to perform the tests. Takes one car. Prove that the installation does not change how it works.

Andy Neuman wrote: The government has cut out any ability to start up as a car manufacturers in the US.

Some one forgot to tell Tesla that then.

So...How many exo cars will we see with lightweight, disposable bodies that look like an old Seven? The law never says the consumer has to leave the body installed. Like mattress tags. Make them out of one of the corn starch-based resins so that you can pull the body off, then dissolve it in your yard by hosing it down.

You'll never make an exo car look like a Seven, assuming you're thinking of cars like the Exocet and the Atom. The cockpit is far too wide. But you could make it look like a Pacer

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Andy Neuman wrote: The government has cut out any ability to start up as a car manufacturers in the US.

Some one forgot to tell Tesla that then.

Yes, if you have a vision and can find the investors anything is possible. Tesla was impressive raising millions in private funding before the first car was launched.

In reply to Andy Neuman:

So the rest of the small car makers are chicken salad?

Land of the Free.... Home of the brave...

HA!