Good motors to swap into a GT6?

Crazy talk: If we're imagining, here, I'm going to go ahead and rear up on my hind legs. The VR6 weighs 380lbs. That may not be true, but it is made true by repeated google results of what board posters think. (+1 new result) Mount it as far back as you can without cutting into the foot wells. Cannibalize a 924 or a 944's flywheel clutch, torque tube, transaxle . . . pancreas. Everything down the line from the crank to the hubs. http://www.924.id.lv/Heynes%20Manual%20924/07_Transm01_files/image002.gif . VR6's into Porsches are already being done, 931's, 951's, (.38, .39 Whatever it takes) http://www.hybrid9s.com/showthread.php?t=48 , but you need this adapter plate. http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_85&products_id=665 Narrow the center section of a Miata rear suspension dropout 2 inches http://www.quadesl.com/miata_photos/rear_diagram.gif The fattest part of the transaxle will likely have to be flush to the front crossmember for the axles to line up. I haven't actually measured, so the front cross member may have to be replaced with a tubular steel section, probably 2 paired tubes, with the necessary bow to clear the hump and let it all line up. Speaking of tubular steel; yeah, a lot of the rear of the frame will have to be chopped off and replaced (new bit, up and over the subframe) which is a PiTA, but hey, you're getting rid of that rotoflex and getting a rear suspension with more degrees of freedom than the contortionist girlfriend you used to think you wanted under a skin with as many curves. Sure it's probably not any better thought out but it doesn't mean it's any less fun to think about.

I don/t know if it's been mentioned, but either this publication, or its sister, Classic Motorsports, did build a 300hp+ Spitfire, Soup to nuts...Engine mounts to coil-over rear suspension..

SORRY, it;s late, a ROTARY powered Spit

In reply to triumph5: I couldn't find a 300hp rotary spit. Do you have a link to the build up?

In reply to budbarker: I saw itadvertised in a list of back issues available..It was maybe 3-4 years ago. I'll look and get back to you. Might be in the 25 years of project cars issue,

Found it: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/ro-spit/

You want a cheap, light weight, short, small, compact engine that will produce 200 hp or around there, with fuel-injection, and will be reliable until the cows come home?

Suzuki H27A out of a Grand Vitara. 2.7L V6, All-Aluminum, 180 hp, 180 ft-lbs of torque. Longitudinal, and can be had with a 5 speed manual trans, in 2wd config.

I asked a guy down in Aus who was planning to shove one into a Starlet what the dimensions were:

"I measured it yesterday and got this - 540mm long (includes water fitting at the rear and pulleys & stuff at the friont) 530mm wide, not including the exhaust manifolds. 610mm tall with everything. 460mm from the bottom of the block to the top of the cam covers."

For quick Metric to Imperial Translation: Length: 21.26 inches Width: 20.87 Inches Height: 24.01 inches / 18.11 Inches

Now, weight. I shot off an Email to Titan Aircraft down in Aus (again) who are using the same V6 in their P-51 Mustang scale-replicas about the weight of the engine:

"The dry weight of the engine with the conversion kit ready to install is 315 lbs. Our firewall installation, prop and everything is around 400 lbs. The barebones without the conversion kit is between 260 - 270 lbs. "

It does have the negative quirk of munching the chain guides however, but other than that, I haven't heard of any other issues with the design. Also, due to the nature of the engine, it is in low demand, and as such, should be cheap to pick up from a scrap yard. The converse negative side of this is, I have only heard of 3 modified versions of this engine: 1: Used in Monster Tajima's Pike's Peak Escudo. 2: Used in some dude's Grand Vitara that he turboed to around 400+ hp, but I never saw any dyno sheets. 3: Monster Tajima's Pikes Peak SX4, twin turboed to over 800 hp.

But I know of no aftermarket for the engine. Period. Which sucks.

irish44j wrote: I've always thought the real solution is what a few people have done....move the stock engine back 4-6" for better balance, build it to a reliable 150hp, and bring the car's weight down in the 1600-1700lb range (FG bonnet, coil spring rear suspension, stripped interior, fiberglass wings, etc). Thus giving a p/w ratio roughly on par with an STi or Evo.

I'm assuming you are familiar with FIS6?

Another NASS member is also building a Spit 6 with a relocated I6. However, he's using a TR6 2.5 engine mated to a Toyota 5 spd. He's doing a FIS6-style relocation as well, but going one further by flipping the shock towers and mounting the engine to the back. Needless to say, the frame needed some serious messaging...

Ian F wrote:

irish44j wrote: I've always thought the real solution is what a few people have done....move the stock engine back 4-6" for better balance, build it to a reliable 150hp, and bring the car's weight down in the 1600-1700lb range (FG bonnet, coil spring rear suspension, stripped interior, fiberglass wings, etc). Thus giving a p/w ratio roughly on par with an STi or Evo.

I'm assuming you are familiar with FIS6? Another NASS member is also building a Spit 6 with a relocated I6. However, he's using a TR6 2.5 engine mated to a Toyota 5 spd. He's doing a FIS6-style relocation as well, but going one further by flipping the shock towers and mounting the engine to the back. Needless to say, the frame needed some serious messaging...

If this is the one I'm thinking of (Mr. Tegler's car), it was at Carlisle last week. It's quite a piece of work and a lot of the build is documented on his website.

In reply to triumph5:Interesting Spitfire. The more I ready about the rotaries the more I like them

carzan wrote: If this is the one I'm thinking of (Mr. Tegler's car), it was at Carlisle last week. It's quite a piece of work and a lot of the build is documented on his website.

Yep. The other one is out in Ohio.

Rotaries work REAL nice in Spits.

A friend of mine is putting a Dodge 2.2 Turbo motor in a GT6. Using a 4cylinder Dakota bell housing, Toyota Supra 5 speed tranny, and a Miata LSD diff. Plus I think the turbo is off a Thunderbird.

budbarker wrote: Crazy talk: If we're imagining, here, I'm going to go ahead and rear up on my hind legs. The VR6 weighs 380lbs. That may not be true, but it is made true by repeated google results of what board posters think. (+1 new result) Mount it as far back as you can without cutting into the foot wells. Cannibalize a 924 or a 944's flywheel clutch, torque tube, transaxle . . . pancreas. Everything down the line from the crank to the hubs. http://www.924.id.lv/Heynes%20Manual%20924/07_Transm01_files/image002.gif . VR6's into Porsches are already being done, 931's, 951's, (.38, .39 Whatever it takes) http://www.hybrid9s.com/showthread.php?t=48 , but you need this adapter plate. http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_85&products_id=665 Narrow the center section of a Miata rear suspension dropout 2 inches http://www.quadesl.com/miata_photos/rear_diagram.gif The fattest part of the transaxle will likely have to be flush to the front crossmember for the axles to line up. I haven't actually measured, so the front cross member may have to be replaced with a tubular steel section, probably 2 paired tubes, with the necessary bow to clear the hump and let it all line up. Speaking of tubular steel; yeah, a lot of the rear of the frame will have to be chopped off and replaced (new bit, up and over the subframe) which is a PiTA, but hey, you're getting rid of that rotoflex and getting a rear suspension with more degrees of freedom than the contortionist girlfriend you used to think you wanted under a skin with as many curves. Sure it's probably not any better thought out but it doesn't mean it's any less fun to think about.

I like Bud.

Can we be frendz?

HappyJack wrote: A friend of mine is putting a Dodge 2.2 Turbo motor in a GT6. Using a 4cylinder Dakota bell housing, Toyota Supra 5 speed tranny, and a Miata LSD diff. Plus I think the turbo is off a Thunderbird.

By chance is that mr_niteowl from up Canada way? He came to the Challenge a few times with a Rampage pickup and was going to try the same thing you are talking about. He and Lesley run with the same gang up there.

In reply to Jensenman:

yep, thats him. I guess I'm part of the same gang. Unfortunately for his project though, it has seemed to have grinded to an almost halt.

Ian F wrote:

irish44j wrote: I've always thought the real solution is what a few people have done....move the stock engine back 4-6" for better balance, build it to a reliable 150hp, and bring the car's weight down in the 1600-1700lb range (FG bonnet, coil spring rear suspension, stripped interior, fiberglass wings, etc). Thus giving a p/w ratio roughly on par with an STi or Evo.

I'm assuming you are familiar with FIS6? Another NASS member is also building a Spit 6 with a relocated I6. However, he's using a TR6 2.5 engine mated to a Toyota 5 spd. He's doing a FIS6-style relocation as well, but going one further by flipping the shock towers and mounting the engine to the back. Needless to say, the frame needed some serious messaging...

Definitely familiar with everything Paul T. has done with his various cars :) I've borrowed a few of his ideas already for my GT6+ weekender...all with smashing success.

Hi, I am new here .I am in the finishing stages of a 3SGE Beams (Black Top)into a 1978 Spit. We started it today and tuned it.It sounds crazy as hell. 210 H.P from a car that does not weigh 1500pounds.....I'm gonna need brakes.

So what happened with the gt6s, Irish and jensenman (curmudgeon?)

Oddly I was thinking about this today for no apparent reason (as my GT6 is hidden in the shed out back, with a fully functioning motor and everything else).

I was thinking it would be awesome to swap in a full Subaru AWD drivetrain into a GT6. We know that a Subie diff will fit with some modifications (since Triumph guys already use them sometimes). Figure can make a boxer fit no problem, and either run it with no front axles as a RWD car, or try to create a front setup for AWD.

It's a pipe dream, but would be cool as hell........

That said, I've fixed a lot of my GT6's stock handling ills with a combination of sway bars, stiffer springs, lowering block in the rear, and lower offset wheels in the back (staggered from front). Now the car takes corners with the rear end feeling much more secure than it used to, even under heavy braking.

A few of life's odds and ends got in the way, but it's looking very much Dodge 2.2 Turbo II at the moment and surgery may commence after the first of the year. Me, I'd prefer a 13BT but it ain't my car.

Suspension will be modeled after the Abomination: Miata uprights and brakes all around, Miata diff etc.

irish44j wrote: I was thinking it would be awesome to swap in a full Subaru AWD drivetrain into a GT6. We know that a Subie diff will fit with some modifications (since Triumph guys already use them sometimes). Figure can make a boxer fit no problem, and either run it with no front axles as a RWD car, or try to create a front setup for AWD.

I can't imagine how that would work within the stock GT6 bodywork. There simply isn't enough room between the front axle center line and the nose of the car to keep it as AWD. RWD, maybe... but there's barely enough width for the Triumph lump... I can't see how a flat 4 would fit.

I still day-dream about a nice turbo rotory...

To resurrect a very old topic, did the GT6 swaps ever happen?  I've acquired two GT6's, a 1969 & a 1972, both partially disassembled, but with all of the parts, I think.  They both sat outside for some years.  I'd really be interested in what worked for folks and what problems you all ran into in the process.  One of mine (the '72) has the 1963 Buick 215 aluminum V8  and with an automatic trans of about the same vintage. A two-speed hydramatic, I've been told. The "69 looks to be all stock.  I'd like to build an autocross car from the one with the Buick, and maybe eventually restore the other.  To be competitive in autocross, I'm thinking that I should really try to replace the Buick motor with something a little more modern and  with a little more power potential.  I've rebuilt engines several times, but this would be my first engine swap, so I'd appreciate thoughts from folks who have done this sort of thing before, especially folks who have done it in these cars..

Check out my Rat Rod Spitfire build for more info on what is required. Miata 1.8 with a turbo and GT6 rotoflex rear with cv axles and Subaru R160 diff. Will give you some ideas for your GT6. https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/rat-rod-1972-mk4-triumph-spitfire-project/132550/page1/

Ford 2.3 Turbo? Mazda F2T?