Just wondering if anyone here has lived with and worked on the V8 M5 cars?
Thinking about calling about this car but I am not sure what I will be getting into.
Just wondering if anyone here has lived with and worked on the V8 M5 cars?
Thinking about calling about this car but I am not sure what I will be getting into.
I am sure you know this, but that is not even close to an M5.
My M5 was the best and the worst car. It was the V10 version though.
Yes, we've discussed the E39 M5 at some length over the years. A few guys have owned them. Keith Tanner still does.
Not sure if a 540i 6 spd with timing chain needs for $2800 is a good deal or a "run like hell" project...
An old friend of mine has a 540i 6 spd with a Dinan supercharger. It's been his daily driver for years and it has over 200K on it. More than half that with the kit.
The e39 m5 is a cult car. Values are going up. They can be hideously expensive to fix. It's a car you'd better really want. The e60 is a lot cooler but not nearly as reliable. I'd probably do an rs6 if I was looking at a v10 but was surprised at how many repairs required pulling the engine.
In reply to Donebrokeit:
First of all, not an M5 as has been previously noted. That is an E39 540i. More like "a fraction of the performance that costs nearly as much to maintain" if I'm going to use the seller's turn of phrase.
Second, the timing chain service on those is a nightmare job. And by the time you get it all fixed, who knows what the hell else will be wrong with it that you can't verify because it currently doesn't start or drive?
You can get a real nice 540i/6 around $5k. Just get one of those if you really want one.
In reply to pointofdeparture:
In a Wheeler Dealer episode, Edd did a timing chain swap that seemed really easy. It was on Benz, I think. After releasing the tensioner(s), he attached the new chain to the old one and slowly rotated the engine until the old chain was out. Then reinstalled the master link, reset the tensioner(s) and checked the TDC timing.
Not sure if that is a common method, but I'd never heard of it before and seems really cool.
Ian F wrote: In reply to pointofdeparture: In a Wheeler Dealer episode, Edd did a timing chain swap that seemed really easy. It was on Benz, I think. After releasing the tensioner(s), he attached the new chain to the old one and slowly rotated the engine until the old chain was out. Then reinstalled the master link, reset the tensioner(s) and checked the TDC timing. Not sure if that is a common method, but I'd never heard of it before and seems really cool.
Yeah, if only the chain needs to be replaced, that works well.
The timing chain guides are shattered on the car OP linked to, which means EVERYTHING has to come apart.
540i M-Sport is a better buy over an M5 - 75% of the performance for 1/3 of the price and far easier ownership and maintenance.
But, for those who have to have the M5, they have to have the M5.
I've driven both extensively and the difference between an M5 and 540i is not as stark as the difference between an M3 and a 330i.
In reply to Mister Fister:
I'm not sure about that. Mainly with regards to resale. E39 M5 values seems to have plateaued with well kept cars starting to hedge higher. I don't think 540iM cars have hit bottom yet.
But yes... I know some folks for whom nothing less than M stripes will do.
I have a customer that has an e39 540i 6 speed with 350K+ miles on it. He bought it from us used with low miles and we've done all maintenance on it.
Here's the rub- I added up his repair orders from the last 10 years and it's over $40K in maintenance and repairs. Obviously DIY saves a E36 M3 ton on costs, but I can't see where that's a good investment in any way.
Am I the first guy thinking about an LS swap in that $2,800 hooptie?
I had one of those as a company car for a while. I have never had more conflicting feelings about a car in my life. I loved it when it was running and everything was working and I hated it when stupid and unnecessary expensive stuff broke and when it made me walk.
Mister Fister wrote: 540i M-Sport is a better buy over an M5 - 75% of the performance for 1/3 of the price and far easier ownership and maintenance. But, for those who have to have the M5, they have to have the M5. I've driven both extensively and the difference between an M5 and 540i is not as stark as the difference between an M3 and a 330i.
When I was shopping, the math was more like 50% of the performance for 75% of the price. The 540i is a nice enough car, but it's nothing special. Just a nice four door family car that's the perfect size - but not a performance car. And I wouldn't want to pay anyone else to maintain either of them.
Doing your own service on a BMW M engine is part of the fun. If you don't agree with that, you're probably better off with something else. I did pass on an E60 M5 when I realized it wasn't as friendly as an older, more-wrenchable car. 500 horsepower is intoxicating, though.
I did eventually buy an M5, but it's got an S38.
BMW? Yes.
Not an online six? Nope Nope Nope Nope.
Here's a good read about a 540i with timing needs
The condensed version: 30hrs labor, $700 in parts if all goes well (in this case, all did not go well).
In reply to Cactus:
Good choice.
You can roll the time chain in on the mercedes but it is the plastic timing guides that need replacing so either engine out or pull the engine apart to replace guides.
NEALSMO wrote: I have a customer that has an e39 540i 6 speed with 350K+ miles on it. He bought it from us used with low miles and we've done all maintenance on it. Here's the rub- I added up his repair orders from the last 10 years and it's over $40K in maintenance and repairs. Obviously DIY saves a E36 M3 ton on costs, but I can't see where that's a good investment in any way.
Holy E36 M3. I hope he's making over 120k a year, or that's crazy. I feel bad for the people I know who are paying 20-30% of their paycheck on a car while trying to keep up with an image.
In reply to Coldsnap:
$40k over 10 years, is $4k a year. Why would he need to make $120k?
I wonder what 10 years of maintenance and repairs on a 350,000 mile Impala/Accord/Camry would be. $20,000? Is $40,000 maintenance and repairs unreasonable for that mileage?
Datsun310Guy wrote: I wonder what 10 years of maintenance and repairs on a 350,000 mile Impala/Accord/Camry would be. $20,000? Is $40,000 maintenance and repairs unreasonable for that mileage?
Hmm I wouldn't think close to that. My sister took her accord to 350k with hardly any work other than wear items.
pointofdeparture wrote: Yeah, if only the chain needs to be replaced, that works well. The timing chain guides are shattered on the car OP linked to, which means EVERYTHING has to come apart.
So? Afraid of bolts?
Knurled wrote:pointofdeparture wrote: Yeah, if only the chain needs to be replaced, that works well. The timing chain guides are shattered on the car OP linked to, which means EVERYTHING has to come apart.So? Afraid of bolts?
Agreed. Not to be a German car apologist, but I have spent more time trying to understand why everything has to come apart than it would take to just do it. Don't rationalize the irrational, just dig in.
For example, I wanted to replace the plastic grille on my E46 ZHP. I spent a good hour trying to figure out how to get out it without pulling the whole front end of the car off. Once I resigned to that fact, pulling the whole front end off took about 15 minutes.
Most 'exotic' car stuff is still DIYable, given sufficient motivation.
M5 is not going to be a cheap ownership experience any way you slice it. Start with a good one.
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