Help me save Rudolph!

Rudolph was out pulling Santa's helpers around when the transmission just gave out.  He can still move under his own power but it acts like pump pressure is to low and just won't engage gears properly.    I did though drive him home the day he quit and for the second half of the drive it almost seemed to be pulling correctly.  I am not certain the transmission is totally dead but....the yards want quite a bit of money (compared to what the vehicles of the era can be purchased for) for a direct replacement. I am tempted to do a fluid and filter change and see if it will help, but I am just over it and need this to be relatively reliable and have a bit more spirit for the hard work at hand. 

Rudolph is currently powered by a 3.9L V6 which means the Transmission lacks overdrive an thus was fitted with tall gears to make up for it.    I didn't initially mind the v6 because I figured it would burn less gas.   What they really do is often get worse mileage than a V8 with less power.   This 3.9 also has a small but annoying leak at the rear main thanks to a groove in the Crank.    It is time for fresh power.....

The simple solution seems to be to buy a similar v8 van and make the very straightforward swap, but what fun is that without slapping on some turbos which seems like a more difficult and expensive way to mid 300 HP in 2018 than other options?   So at the very least this needs a 5.7 hemi swap right,  but wouldn't a chevy LS swap probably be easier and even cheaper?    Or heck..   Even a 3.6 pentastar would be twice the current power, and should be cheap enough all things considered, but I have no idea where to even begin on running one basically standalone.

The other very tangible option on the table is the 4x4 conversion I longed for for years.   One possible donor has been located.   It is a 1995 Regular cab One ton truck powered by a V10.    This though would surely lead to Rudolph developing a serious drinking problem.  Not to mention the 4x4 conversion at first glance seems like more work than I imagined.   I always thought the Dodge van and Trucks would be more like legos, but with the Unibody and front suspension design of the van it would require lots of use of the ole plasma cutter, but at the end of the day the extra towing capacity along with Rudolph's superb sense of direction would come in quite handy.

Anyone around here with any experience doing 4x4 conversions on the Dodge vans?   

How would you make Rudolph fly?     (Previous versions of Rudolph around here have all been Turbocharged minivans)

Personally, I'd find a 5.9 Magnum with the matching 46RE trans and swap that in.  Should be an easy swap in that van, as in basically just bolts right in. 

Throw a better intake manifold, bigger throttle body, some headers and a good tune on it and you're pushing 300 HP (at the crank).  Add good heads and a cam and you can get close to 400 HP without touching the bottom end.  Given appropriate valvetrain, the stock bottom end is perfectly fine to somewhere in the 6000 - 6500 rpm range and under boost it'll live to 500 - 550 crank HP pretty safely. 

The 46RE is a pretty stout trans, especially if you do a shift kit and give it a few turns on the line pressure screw.  Just keep fresh fluid in it, adjust the bands occasionally and make sure you keep it cool and it'll take plenty of abuse with 400 HP in front of it (it's basically just an old 727 with an electronic governor, a lockup converter and an OD unit bolted to the back). 

I've got that same trans (46RE) in the Jeep that's been living behind a heads/cam 5.9 since about 120k, trans has 249k on it now with no rebuilds.  Other than frying the converter lockup clutch a little after 200k, it's been rock solid.  Still shifts hard enough to break the tires loose a little on the 1-2 shift at WOT (and that's with 240 treadwear 255s on it).  1-2 at WOT in the rain is pretty much a 50 mph rolling burnout (it's shift kitted and has the line pressure cranked up).  And mine hasn't lived a babied life, just maintained and with much better than stock cooling. 

Hey Ron, I love all your vans and feel just a little kinship sitting over here with my 3.9/3spd b250 and my two turbo Caravans. 

I think your 4x4 conversion might not be too hard if you're doing a straight axle and leaf springs. Even though it's unibody it does have some pretty strong and conventional looking framerails on bottom you could attach things to, and it's already got a recirculating ball steering gearbox.

Here's a 4x4 dodge van that Dirt Every Day picked up that has a 3 link and coils front setup for some inspiration:

Dirt Every Day is the best.

As a gm guy I would say sure ls but your probably better off getting one of the magnum v8s 5.2/5.9 for simplicity since they did come in the vans for the factory.

If you look at the 5.9 magnum crate motor it makes 290hp/440tq with a regular carb manifold and headers on a stock truck cam. That's with a cam that makes peak power in the 4s.  They also sold a  380hp crate that had... a cam. Still stock heads, 9:1 comp.  So basically, any 5.9 with a cam and an intake other than stock is a 350-400hp engine.  But, you can do whatever you want! If you end up doing a stick axle swap you're probably going to lose the crossmember that carries the stock engine mounts, and once you're making mounts and swapping computers etc there's less argument against a totally different engine platform. 

In reply to Vigo :

The 380hp crate has a pretty obnoxious cam to get that power with the stock heads.  Better heads will open things up enough that you can get into that same power ballpark with a much more mild cam.  350hp is do-able with nearly stock idle, etc.  400hp doesn't require a massive cam with good heads. 

In reply to Vigo :

I have yet to really look closely but I understand most of the problem with just throwing a stick is the frame crossmembers in the van drop down to pick up the A-arm van suspension and need intensive surgery to go up and over a stick axle.   The unibody rails I understand are also wider and certainly not enough on their own to be treated as one would a standard body on frame.   Certainly this can be overcome and is not uncharted territory, but the final product in this case needs to function for daily work and not just a toy.  

A 5.9 seems like the most logical choice and a good might even come with other 4wd parts..   but even if it falls into the 'lego' Dodge I am not sure were to look for all the right bricks.

For whatever reason I discovered when looking for a quick replacement transmission the 97 van with the 3.9 the yards all list as one year only.    Not sure what the deal is but if I am not mistaken the vans lagged behind, so I might need some parts from a very early truck 5.9 if they exist at all to make a 5.9 swap a simple plug and play...

Ok..   off to the interwebs...

oh and yes..  Vigo..    We are kindred spirits..  and the thought crossed my mind to just build a good strong 2.5L Turbo..  I have a couple spares around...   

What year is the van?  If it's 96+ (OBDII), any 96 - 03 5.9 truck engine and trans (they do come in 2wd form) should just bolt right in and with the appropriate engine harness and ECU, should just plug in.  If you start modding the engine, the SCT Pro Racer Package for DCX plus the handheld tuner unit will give you what you need to be able to tune the stock ECU. 

97 van...   but it has the old gauges... wing windows....      

97 means the OBDII 5.2 / 5.9 stuff will all swap in along with the 46RE trans, as that's what the V8 vans would have come with in those years.  97 was the last year before the interior update, but only the V6 had the old 3 speed by that point. 

If it doesn't have overdrive then there are approximately a billion Dodge 904s and 727s that will bolt up to that engine and work. I probably have 6 of them in my shed right now. Any automatic bolted to a 318, 340, or 360 newer than @1967 when they went from the wide block 318 A engine to the LA 318.

You might have to do something with a VSS and the computer might throw a code for not being hooked up to a trans, but it should be drivable. 

Help Rudolph learn Japanese.  Make him into a dajiban.   

The 380hp crate has a pretty obnoxious cam to get that power with the stock heads.  Better heads will open things up enough that you can get into that same power ballpark with a much more mild cam.  350hp is do-able with nearly stock idle, etc.  400hp doesn't require a massive cam with good heads. 

I don't disagree with any of that. I spent about 5 mins googling and found a couple of threads with people making 360-370hp with 15" of idle vacuum. The 380 combo was poorly spec'd for a heavy van that would need low and mid-range, but it just goes to show what is out there on a basically stock 5.9 magnum.

Of course, when the original 5.7 Hemi crate engine came out, Hot Rod stuck a cam and headers  on it and made... 480hp.  

Might be a bad governor pressure sensor and transducer, they are on the bottom of the valve body and can be replaced on the ground.

Paul B

Vigo said: I spent about 5 mins googling and found a couple of threads with people making 360-370hp with 15" of idle vacuum.

Based on what other people have dynoed and the ouptut of engine analyzer, my engine should be right in that ballpark given a bigger throttle body (it's a bit choked right now).  Idles with a nice 15 - 16" of vacuum, sounds like stock at idle, has almost as much torque as stock at low rpm but pulls much harder at high RPM and is still only falling off gently at 6k (compared to the stock setup that falls off a cliff by 4800 and barely makes it to the rev limiter at 5300).  

In reply to Donebrokeit :

I have thought about trying to fix it but Auto transmissions are a black art vudo science.    I can figure just about anything out, but I have never even attempted an auto tranny other than solenoid repair on a 42 or 44RE in a jeep.   The present transmission would for the longest time, right up until the current problem would have a delay before engaging reverse the first time of the day.    Sometimes it would take as much as 30 seconds before it would engage reverse then it would work totally normal the rest of the day.   THe fluid that is in it doesn't look or smell burned up, but isn't great either.     I may have to have a look around in there before pulling things all the way apart, at least to put it back in service long enough to collect all the parts to take it to the next level.

Speaking of which.

  I did come across this for less than Scrap prices...    4x4.   5.9L     I think it is a 1996     Transmission is a 46RE and is reported and looks to have been very recently rebuilt by a reputable shop, but is since missing the tail housing and transfer case.    Someone must have been having a hard time getting it running because I don't think if that PCM is a 99 it would work.    I didn't see a OBD2 port and then noticed the old chysler under the hood.    So this might have some of the parts I need, but not all...    I have already found a 80K mile 2001 5.9 engine....

The sticker on that PCM is for a software update done after the PCM was produced, it doesn't mean the PCM is from a 99.  

In reply to rslifkin :

    I understand if I was going to use a 46RH it would be as simple as adding a couple wires for injectors and programing or plugging in the right PCM..   And a switch or controller for the lockup....

   What about making a 46RE happy?  Ideally I need to find a V8 van harness and just swap that in to keep things plug and play?   Or ?   

You'd also need a switch / controller for OD on a 46RH (4th gear is solenoid shifted).  If you're using the engine / drivetrain harness and PCM for a V8 van or truck, it'll run the 46RE with no drama, as everything will just plug in.  I'm not sure if anything is different in the engine harness for a van vs a truck.  

In reply to rslifkin :

Yeah...  So it appears the truck i have is an OBD1   the plan is find a OBD2 van in yard and see it i can't push the really easy button...    This should be fun.    

more lazy questions..   what is the recommendation on intakes and camshafts for the 5.9    I intend to open it and freshen things up a bit.    

Dodge put out a car in 97 without OD? Seems really backward there

In reply to ronholm :

If you can find a 4bbl M1 intake manifold (used only at this point I think), jump on it.  Otherwise, buy the not quite as good flowing but still much better than stock Airgap manifold from Hughes.  No cheap options unfortunately unless you know someone that can add injector ports to a carb manifold. 

For a cam, how well mannered do you want it to be? 

Also keep in mind, if you cam it and keep the stock heads, you'll have to change valve springs and IIRC you're limited to around .510" lift or so before guide to retainer clearance becomes a problem. 

With I'm sure the exception of some little things like parts to fabricate a shifter I believe I now have in Santa's workshop all of the pieces to make Rudolph a 5.9 l 4x4.

The only key piece know I'm lacking is a PCM programmed for the engine setup as someone had pulled every PCM from the yard I was at today.  It seems like a better idea to get setup to program the thing anyway.

The current plan will be to do the V8 swap and have the 46re transmission the transfer case installed and driving.    It'll be all be time dependent on whether or not do the front axle or not.  I'm bouncing back and forth on fabricating a long arm 4 Link or trying to make the truck parts work.  

Well, the cool thing is that you can get it running in 2hi first and all the rest of the 4wd swap is optional or on whatever timeline you want. 

Also, you don't necessarily need valvesprings for a mild cam. In fact, one of the things people used to do to these vehicles since a cam swap is relatively involved, is swap from 1.6 to 1.7:1 rocker arms. Supposedly that was good for 20-30 hp on a stock engine, so that just goes to show that there is room for improvement in the cam without opening pandora's box of scope creep. 

In reply to ronholm :

For the PCM, you'll still need to find a correct year V8 PCM (truck or van shouldn't matter and 5.2 vs 5.9 doesn't matter if you're going to re-tune it anyway).  But if you can hunt down a part number, PCMs are usually all over ebay.