Looking for an awd for the wife and ski trips. The '02 forester we drove over the weekend was a nice size and while underpowered seemed OK. Most in that vintage had 180-200K miles and I am hearing stuff about head gaskets on the 2.5(?) motor. Having had volvos and audi 5 cylinders for a decade 200K miles is not an issue but maybe it is on these. Any feedback? Are the motors good if the headgasket has been changed or will it be a repeat issue?
The '02 is a SOHC so if there was a leak odds are it was external and didn't cause any damage. The DOHC EJ25's leaked internally and made a coolant/oil milkshake that's not too good for the bearings. Either way that's a ton of miles and Subarus tend to, at some point in their lives, be owned by a Rallye wannabe and suffer more abuse than the average Volvo or even Audi.
I'd hold out for an EJ22 or EG33 
.
I've personally had 4 Subarus with 200k plus, two of which passed 400k, and one of those two had the gaskets replaced (albeit by myself). Then again it was an EJ22, not a 25. From my anecdotal experience, if it wasn't SEVERELY overheated and the job was done right it's nothing to worry about, I see little things like cam/main/oil pump seals neglected more frequently than HG's.
My EJ25 DOHC powered 97 Outback is banging down the door of 400K kms (250K miles). I have only owned it a short time - bought it from the 2nd owners.
I understand the 2005+ motors addressed the HG problems.
From my experience, the 2.5RS' all tend to burn oil if over 200,000kms in Canada (if it hasn't been rebuilt or replaced already). I think it comes down to poor maintenance, but also believe the 2.2L is a more durable motor overall.
The 2.2 in my dads car went about 360k before it started burning too much oil to pass emissions anymore. We swapped a 170k mile 2.2 in about 30k miles ago, and it just starting to make lifter noise but still runs good. The car has about 400k on it now. You would be better off buying a lower mileage one though, because the maintaince gets really expensive once things that wernt meant to be replaced start wearing out.
Had a 2.2 that went to 217,000 before we sold it and bought the Forester, which now has 160,000. 200k+ is common around here. Timing belt every 90k and watch the HG's (sohc will start weeping oil externally, usually onto the driver's side motor mount). Usually once you replace the original gaskets they hold up. A dry engine is a happy engine on a Subaru. Ours didn't have the best prior owner so uses some oil between changes but not enough to make any smoke out the back. Excellent forum at Forester.org that is mostly free of the juvenile stupidity that seems the norm on NASIOC.
The head gasket would be obvious on that model you are looking at. Crawl under and look for oil near the exhaust manifold. I just sold one with 258k. Rust is the thing yofu have to worry about. Find a rust free one WITH a bad head gasket. Have the head gasket fixed, and drive the thing forever. Only thing that really seems to crap out prematurely is the alternators. they just don't seem to last.
My Subie experience is long but focused on the EG33 (SVX) and EJ257 (turbo 2.5-'07 Legacy specB). The EG33 headgaskets have had significant numbers of failures but in a largely unheard of car. Ours falied at 142k miles in 2002 (car is a '92). In my estimation, they are no more durable than other Suby motors just sold in lesser quantities. My heads were flat and the gaskets exhibited no blow-outs but the car overheated and filled the overflow with combustion gasses. Pulled the motor, replaced the headgaskets and dropped her back in. No alternator issues that I have seen on our SVX yet.
Legacy has been trouble-free with the exception of wheel bearings (unit-style). Two failed but were covered under warranty. SVXen eat wheel bearings and 4EAT transmissions.
NGTD wrote: I understand the 2005+ motors addressed the HG problems.
i wish that were the case. just replaced both HG's on my '05 RS at 88k miles.
truth be told, i'm pretty sure i just could have kept driving it since the later phase II's leak externally. but, i just didn't feel OK about it so I had it fixed. replaced the stock gaskets with the STi MLS gasket so the car should fall apart around the engine before the gasket goes again.
i have 93k on it now (just a youngin', i admit) and i feel that it drives better than when i got it 5 years ago. oil analysis has shown low wear metals and it still pulls down 30+ mpg highway.
The 2.2 in my '95 Legacy Outback has 242k. Head gaskets have never been done.
The 2.2 in the Wartburg had 178k on it and it survived BABE, Lemons and GRM :) I guess that's good for something.
I've never replaced an alternator in any of ours. One noisy starter and a failing a/c clutch, yes.
my 2.2 has 230k+ ... if what I've been told is true... the 2.2 suffers from cam seal leakage and the 2.5 from head gaskets... the common belief is that with better replacement parts the problems go away ..YMMV
How are the six cylinder engines? The torque has to be better, how is the mileage?
I'm not sure about the 2.5s. But I have owned two ej22e vehiculars. Both 96 imprezas.
One had 230k miles. It burned zero oil, and got 29 mpg highway in the summer through the AWD. Had some lifter noise.
Another had 298k miles. Not sure if it burned oil or not because I pulled it out immediately in favor of an eg33. But it did start without any issue and drove just fine. This one was soaked in oil because the previous owner didn't keep his seals up to date.
As long as the head gaskets are in good shape I would be more concerned about other parts (as in cost and the reliability of replacements). Some of the things that have been a problem on my dads car (1996 outback with 400k) were alternators, new ones are NLA, and you get a choice of $$$ rebuilt ones from the dealer with no warranty, or cheaper kragens ones with a lifetime warranty. It took 4 of them in less than 100k miles, (plus several $25 belts when the alternators seized without warning) before getting a good one that has lasted a long time. Front wheel bearings are expensive to replace, and new ones dont seem to last any longer than getting a used spindle from the junkyard and swapping it on. The outer cv joints often seize in the hub requiring replacement of the hub, spindle and cv joint when and of those parts need service. Fuel pumps cost about $200 and fail every 100k. The orignal clutch was slipping badly by 280k (although it didnt look that worn), and a new sachs clutch with the original flywheel machined at napa auto parts chattered so bad that it was miserable to drive. About 50k later the pivot ball punched though the clutch fork and the pressure plate was also damaged, so we replaced the clutch again, with a new fork, new clutch kit and a new flywheel. This stopped the chattering, but the clutch jammed last week when i was driving on the freeway, although it came unstuck after beating on the clutch fork for a while. So, its almost time to pull the engine for the 3rd time in less than 100k for clutch related problems.
I know this car has very high mileage, but the thing is the blue book value is still close to $3k. No way is it worth it to keep one on the road for that long if you can get a low mileage one for even 2-3x that price.
Really like the imprezza, looking for one with auto and a sunroof for the wife. Also found a nice legacy wagon with the 6 but I am not sure about gas mileage with the bigger motor.
Travis_K wrote: and a new sachs clutch with the original flywheel machined at napa auto parts chattered so bad that it was miserable to drive.
That was due to the input shaft snout the throwout bearing rides on, guaranteed. They become worn over time (by about 200,000kms) on all Subaru's, sometimes sooner. A company sells kits that remedies that chatter by using a custom throwout plus a harder metal sleeve over the the input shaft. (BTW).
HiTempguy wrote:Travis_K wrote: and a new sachs clutch with the original flywheel machined at napa auto parts chattered so bad that it was miserable to drive.That was due to the input shaft snout the throwout bearing rides on, guaranteed. They become worn over time (by about 200,000kms) on all Subaru's, sometimes sooner. A company sells kits that remedies that chatter by using a custom throwout plus a harder metal sleeve over the the input shaft. (BTW).
I am aware of that problem, but it was not in this case, because the chatter completely went away with the new clutch and flywheel. The input shaft is likely worn though, because I think that is what caused the clutch to stick the last time I drove it.
Legacys are very useful cars and I dont hate them, there are a couple of reasons I posted that though.
Compared to every other car i have had experience with, factory quality replacements for high mileage wear items are very expensive.
The amount of depreciation (or lack thereof) makes keeping one on on the road past 250k not make financial sense(or less so than any other car i have had experience with), even though the value of the car at that mileage is still higher than comparable vehicles.
Between my wife and I, we've had four EJ251 cars: two '01 Forester Ls(one auto, one manual, both were fantastic) and the current lot.
Her 70k '04 Forester is clean and serviceable, all it's needed since new is warranty head gaskets and wear items.
My 213k '02 Impreza TS is a prime example of 170k under-maintained commuter miles with my elderly father, and a mercilessly flogged life with me since then. 95% of the parts content is original to the car as it left Japan. Runs like complete garbage, gets 15mpg, head gaskets weep slightly, and has crap oil pressure. But it starts every time and has never threatened to dump me at the roadside. Now if it'll just live thru the winter, I'll see about putting a used engine together for it.
I don't see much issue with a 200k '02. Head gaskets, 02 sensors, and rear wheel bearings are about all to look out for if it's been maintained. Happy hunting!
porschenut wrote: How are the six cylinder engines? The torque has to be better, how is the mileage?
Our 1995 SVX six cylinder (EG33) motor returned 22-24mpg for my wife in mixed driving (70% freeway at hyper-legal speeds). In the same car I was able to get multiple tanks right at 30mpg when the motor was fresh (purchased it w/36k) on straight freeway runs.
Our 1992 SVX routinely got 22-24 when equipped with the automagic box and my wife behind the wheel. With the WRX 5 speed (and now increased final drive 3.54 to 3.90), gutted behind the front seats with a loose nut behind the wheel I get...wait for it...22mpg average over the last five tanks though I have seen it go as low as 17 mpg whern I was trying her out after the swap.
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