If you start with the idea that a Civic Type R is priced right then I think the Integra Type S pricing is fine. Considering you can't get. Type R without a 10k markup, the Type S is not off.
If you start with the idea that a Civic Type R is priced right then I think the Integra Type S pricing is fine. Considering you can't get. Type R without a 10k markup, the Type S is not off.
We gripe but there will be those that pay it because they "need" it. Looking at the sub $50k used market and there are a lot of cars I'd rather have than that.
In reply to GTwannaB :
What makes you think that the Integra won't also have a 10k mark up?
I really like my Si at $28k. At $50k, I start shopping things like C7 Vettes, Supras, RS3s and all sorts of other things. Once you consider the fuel efficiency decrease the R and Type S suddenly have a lot of competition. Fun to drive, 30 mpg, manual transmission, and $50k has a lot more options than $30k, manual, fun to drive and 40 mpg.
Red91sc said:We gripe but there will be those that pay it because they "need" it. Looking at the sub $50k used market and there are a lot of cars I'd rather have than that.
Another familiar GRM trope.
Let's compare the price of used cars to the price of new cars!
It's a fair thing to do, because the used cars are there and people really do that math. For $50k, I'd buy the i8 for sale in town instead of an Integra.
Keith Tanner said:It's a fair thing to do, because the used cars are there and people really do that math. For $50k, I'd buy the i8 for sale in town instead of an Integra.
Friendly disagree. Comparing a 10+ year old Porsche (or i8) with no warranty, to a new Acura with a warranty and likely other perks like free oil changes and stuff............that doesn't make since to me. I guess if you're looking ONLY at price, sure. But to me, that's ignoring the entire picture.
If someone thinks it's overpriced, that's fine (and I agree it is), but everything is crazy expensive these days and most of our salaries haven't kept up.
The warranty, parts cost - that's part of the entire picture for sure. If I have $50k to drop on a car, I'll be looking at how I'll want to spend my money - and I've spent enough time with older cars to know what life is like without a warranty and free oil changes :) Do I get an interesting car with some risk/overhead, or do I get a depreciating new car? Sometimes the new car is the right choice, sometimes it isn't. I've purchased new cars and I've purchased used cars. The new cars had to bring something to the table that the used cars could not, or vice versa.
This is all just internet blather, of course, as I wouldn't be buying an Integra Type S regardless of MSRP :) The market will have to decide if it's worth the ask. I don't think so, I don't think it's really all that special a car.
Not only is it a fair comparison, it's a very relevant comparison. At several points over the past 3 years, late models were priced over MSRP. Now that equation is starting to invert, but it's almost on a car-by-car basis.
Keith Tanner said:The warranty, parts cost - that's part of the entire picture for sure. If I have $50k to drop on a car, I'll be looking at how I'll want to spend my money - and I've spent enough time with older cars to know what life is like without a warranty and free oil changes :) Do I get an interesting car with some risk/overhead, or do I get a depreciating new car? Sometimes the new car is the right choice, sometimes it isn't. I've purchased new cars and I've purchased used cars. The new cars had to bring something to the table that the used cars could not, or vice versa.
This is all just internet blather, of course, as I wouldn't be buying an Integra Type S regardless of MSRP :) The market will have to decide if it's worth the ask. I don't think so, I don't think it's really all that special a car.
Yeah, it wouldn't be worth it to me. I already made my choice with a new car. :)
But if I was a dad or needed a 4 door, I'm definitely not buying a Corolla or something like that. Boring cars are the bane of existence. For a brief time I even had a Pro-4X Frontier (the ex-wife said if I wanted another project car I need something for house duties, I ended up being offered so much money for the parts I had gathered that I abandoned the build). I would purposely go out in 2WD and try to get stuck. I'd get it stuck in 2WD, put it in 4WD, lock the rear diff and it would pull itself out with ease. And one time I buried it in mud up to the frame, it didn't even flinch.
In reply to calteg:
Well, the comparison's that were being used in these examples weren't lightly used 1-2 year old vehicles. No 10-year old Cayman over the last 3 years was selling for more than MSRP. So I don't really think that's relevant to what I was saying.
Right now, my biggest takeaway from this thread is that there are used i8's out there with low-mid $50K asking prices... quite a few on Autotrader right now... and a couple under that level... If I was in the market for another quirky car, that is definitely something to consider.
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
Right? I only found out they were in that range when we passed a used car lot with one and I looked it up.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
the i8 also popped up on Hagerty's annual "appreciation" list, suggesting they're at or near the bottom of the depreciation curve
This is $50,800 and that's before you select the paint color you actually want for another $600? So, $51,400?
Integra Type S - Manual transmission - FWD - 320hp / 310 lb.-ft - Turbo 4
It starts going that far north of $50k and I think about how you can get the top end TLX with the performance wheel and tire combo and your preferred paint for $57,150 MSRP
TLX Type S - 10 speed auto - SH-AWD - 355hp / 354 lb.-ft - Turbo V6
calteg said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
the i8 also popped up on Hagerty's annual "appreciation" list, suggesting they're at or near the bottom of the depreciation curve
Must be why I see YouTubers picking them up lately.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
Right? I only found out they were in that range when we passed a used car lot with one and I looked it up.
I've already been burned by a dealer maintained, low mileage modern BMW. Can't imagine doing it again. Of course, that's just me.
Having noted the CTR pricing befor the Type-S was even confirmed, and that the sticker was too rich for my blood, I knew the Type-S would be laughably expensive. I like it, I'd love to drive it, and even own one....but I see this car as a mid to upper 30's price range....where they were back in the day.....52k? Not a chance. Yeah yeah....factor inflation.....if salaries also factored inflation that might be a valid argument, but they don't , at least not on the scale we factor it for anything else.
But I'm not plunking down money for a new car anytime soon (hopefully) so Acura need not fret over my opinion. I wish them well. I'll be looking for them in the 5 year old used car market.
TGMF said:Having noted the CTR pricing befor the Type-S was even confirmed, and that the sticker was too rich for my blood, I knew the Type-S would be laughably expensive. I like it, I'd love to drive it, and even own one....but I see this car as a mid to upper 30's price range....where they were back in the day.....52k? Not a chance. Yeah yeah....factor inflation.....if salaries also factored inflation that might be a valid argument, but they don't , at least not on the scale we factor it for anything else.
But I'm not plunking down money for a new car anytime soon (hopefully) so Acura need not fret over my opinion. I wish them well. I'll be looking for them in the 5 year old used car market.
I paid $25k for my 2015 BRZ Limited new, I paid $33k for my '23 BRZ Limited new.
Things get more expensive. Not sure why the "back in the day price" seems to be a constant point of contention. It sucks, sure, but that's how inflationary money supply works.
I'm not a potential buyer, not my type of car.
If I did need something in this segment my expectation would be around 30k.
I'm not surprised though when we w e re shopping for my wife's car we were looking under or around 65k, I thought the MDX would be a mid priced option, when I build one it was considerable over that. It quickly fell off the list of considerations
z31maniac said:Keith Tanner said:In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
Right? I only found out they were in that range when we passed a used car lot with one and I looked it up.
I've already been burned by a dealer maintained, low mileage modern BMW. Can't imagine doing it again. Of course, that's just me.
Oh it definitely wouldn't be a car I'd want to depend on. I own a bunch of Triumphs as well as a MINI. Quirky and unreliable is my stock in trade. And honestly, before I bought one, I'd do research for an indie shop in the Philly area with a decent reputation for servicing them. Besides, where else can you get modern supercar styling, relative rarity and close to modern supercar performance for well under $100K? (Vettes don't count)
Regarding the CTR vs. ITS, I would probably go for the CTR. And the previous version at that. While I know the ITS would be a more comfortable place to be in for long periods, I have other vehicles for that requirement. I've kinda grown to like the over-the-top styling of the previous CTR. Hell... compared to current BMWs it looks kinda tame.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:z31maniac said:Keith Tanner said:In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
Right? I only found out they were in that range when we passed a used car lot with one and I looked it up.
I've already been burned by a dealer maintained, low mileage modern BMW. Can't imagine doing it again. Of course, that's just me.
Oh it definitely wouldn't be a car I'd want to depend on. I own a bunch of Triumphs as well as a MINI. Quirky and unreliable is my stock in trade. And honestly, before I bought one, I'd do research for an indie shop in the Philly area with a decent reputation for servicing them. Besides, where else can you get modern supercar styling, relative rarity and close to modern supercar performance for well under $100K? (Vettes don't count)
Regarding the CTR vs. ITS, I would probably go for the CTR. And the previous version at that. While I know the ITS would be a more comfortable place to be in for long periods, I have other vehicles for that requirement. I've kinda grown to like the over-the-top styling of the previous CTR. Hell... compared to current BMWs it looks kinda tame.
The boy racer in me loves the over the top styling as well, even though it can be a bit garish at times. I have the GR86 premium duck tail to add on to my BRZ once I quit being afraid to drill into the stock small one.
According to my local Acura guy this is happening today. No idea if this is real or BS.
https://www.acura.com/cars/integra
Woody (Forum Supportum) said:Since I still haven't been able to buy a new Civic Si yet, I went on the Acura website today to see what it would cost to get an Integra with the same engine and transmission. The six speed is only available on the A-Spec, so that's an immediate bump of five grand over the base Integra, just to get away from the CVT.
I can't even justify the added cost of an A-Spec over a Civic Si, so forget about the Type S.
I absolutely love Honda Civics, but there's no way that I'm spending fifty grand on an upmarket Civic.
^Eating my words...
After carefully explaining to everyone why it's stupid to buy a new Acura Integra A-Spec with the six speed, I went and bought myself a new Acura Integra A-Spec with the six speed. It should be here in about three weeks.
Keith Tanner said:Also worth noting: a Model 3 Performance is $53,240, there are no dealer pricing games and you get $7500 back on your taxes.
Is Elon the background image on your phone? Do you have a poster of him in your shop and above your toilet?
I bet you won't be able to find one for under $60k in most major markets.
An old co-worker of mine at the Honda dealer I worked at in college, texted me saying they have a CTR on the lot. "Cool, how much out the door?" $61k with their dealer markup and all the bullE36 M3 add-ons dealers love to throw on to fluff up the price.
The sad thing, is that every Honda/Acura dealer operates in the same manner. I'll do on this hill but, they offer one of the worst car buying experiences, and that is coming from a die hard Honda fanboi.
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