Hyper Miling. 118 mpg!!!

wvumtnbkr wrote:

stan_d wrote: I had a 83 Sentra wagon that on 93 octaine achieved 50mpg. Carbed 1.6l 5spd. I would love to find another but I haven't seen one for years. Mine was taken out by a caddy to the RR corner.

You might have been able to get better mileage with 86 octane. The higher octanes typically have lower power density. Rob R.

Assuming they are of the same E%, they are exactly the same. Not sure why that keeps coming up.

Power density has not much to do with octane rating, for non alcohol fuels.

So if you have E10 86 octane and E10 93 octane or E10 98 octane, they all have the same energy density, and they all burn the same in your engine (without knock at least).

alfadriver wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: 80mph in 5th gear = open loop, regardless of load. (Obviously if decelerating from a higher speed in gear, AFRs are pegged 22.0:1, or if coasting in neutral, AFRs are about 14.8:1.) Any other scenario, and it's open loop, dumping all kinds of fuel. I can keep 75mph in closed loop as long as i'm drawing a minimum of 10" of vacuum. 9" vacuum or less = open loop. This makes going up hill on long highway hauls annoying.

Well, for your car at least. Not all cars run open loop at 80mph. Just sayin.

I realize this... this is why i said "my MX6" at first.

I'm interested you in your gearing ideas as a way to defeat my problems. Driving 75mph and watching the vacuum/boost gauge and wideband output all the way down to Gainesville isn't my idea of a great time.

I'd prefer to just hammer at 80mph and not worry about watching the gauges i have that don't give me a warning light for that sort of thing.

In reply to Swank Force One:

What year?

To defeat your problem, you want a lower final gear- so that the engine is spinning slower and the car thinks it's moving slower.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: What year? To defeat your problem, you want a lower final gear- so that the engine is spinning slower and the car thinks it's moving slower.

It's a 90.

That's my first plan, but i'm a little worried that it will just increase load to keep at cruising speeds, resulting in less vacuum, dumping me into open loop more often anyways.

AHHH!!!! Catch22!

dean1484 wrote:

wrongwheeldrive wrote:

nymalo wrote: The Adirondack Motor Enthusiast Club held 4 Economy runs in 2008 and 2009. Here is a link to a long thread on the runs. Here is the results from one of the events. We held these events early on a Sunday morning on secondary roads. Mark.

Chang's CRX rocks! 118mpg :D

That is the car I was talking about!!!! He drives his daughter to school in it just about every day.

Does his daughter wear a paper bag to hide her identity? I admire the idea, but at least use white duct tape!!!!

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

I don't think he DD's it with all the aero and tape, he threw that stuff on for competition. I can ask him in 2 weeks at the next autocross if you'd like.

In reply to Swank Force One:

A 90 is pretty early- it will go open loop pretty easy. So if you can trick it, it will stay closed loop. At 80 (which is pretty fast to be worried about fuel economy....), it's a pretty tight rope that you are on.

slowing down may be a more robust solution.

I'm less concerned with going 80mph than i am being able to climb hills at 75 without having to choose between losing speed or 9.8:1 AFRs.

I'll carry on with my $Free.99 hybrid transmission setup and see what that gets me.

alfadriver wrote: Well, for your car at least. Not all cars run open loop at 80mph. Just sayin.

A lot of newer cars with factory wideband O2s never run in open loop.

For a while he had a lot of the tap and the plexi over the rear wheels. The car now has virtually all the add-ons removed. Still a cool little car. I would roll in it for sure!!!! I think the interior is all but removed. Like I said I see him almost every day and we have talked about it some. The way he has it at the moment is pretty cool looking. White with high vis yellow / green tape over some of the trim. I will see about getting a photo in the next couple days. It is supposed to rain through Friday so it may be next week.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

dean1484 wrote:

wrongwheeldrive wrote:

nymalo wrote: The Adirondack Motor Enthusiast Club held 4 Economy runs in 2008 and 2009. Here is a link to a long thread on the runs. Here is the results from one of the events. We held these events early on a Sunday morning on secondary roads. Mark.

Chang's CRX rocks! 118mpg :D

That is the car I was talking about!!!! He drives his daughter to school in it just about every day.

Does his daughter wear a paper bag to hide her identity? I admire the idea, but at least use white duct tape!!!!

She is actually a really cool kid. She competed in an event recently and she and dad were telling me she won. She was warring some oversized reflective sunglasses. She was rocking the whole deal!!!! She is proud of Dad and his car!!!!

Our local rally club just had an economy run, which is a great way to make hypermiling fun.

http://www.smccrally.com/cgi-bin/template.cgi?todo=default&url=events/EconomyRun/2013/Flyer.htm

In reply to dean1484:

Yup, she just got her first national-level trophy at the DC prosolo last weekend! She is starting to get really fast, last local SCCA event she raw-timed all of novice class and then some.

I only see him with his numerous autoX/rallyX cars, haven't yet seen the hypermiler in person so it would be cool if you could snap a pic.

Sky_Render wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Well, for your car at least. Not all cars run open loop at 80mph. Just sayin.

A lot of newer cars with factory wideband O2s *never* run in open loop.

Never is too long. They still run open loop for the time it takes for the sensor to come alive. the one I did was open loop for 13 seconds at 70F, and up to a min if it was cold enough (like -20F).

Once going, they stay closed loop, non stoich, and it's wonderful.

Ok- so who is going to suggest who gets the best average mileage driving their challenge car to Florida in October? Make rules, document, and make your own trophy to give out.

dean1484 wrote: For a while he had a lot of the tap and the plexi over the rear wheels. The car now has virtually all the add-ons removed. Still a cool little car. I would roll in it for sure!!!! I think the interior is all but removed. Like I said I see him almost every day and we have talked about it some. The way he has it at the moment is pretty cool looking. White with high vis yellow / green tape over some of the trim. I will see about getting a photo in the next couple days. It is supposed to rain through Friday so it may be next week.

Cool, is there a build log?

Im kind of surprised this thread got this big without me ever noticing it.

My take on hypermiling: BORING.

My opinions would not be popular on Honda Insight forums, but ive said many times that the great thing about having a high-mpg car is it's the cheapest way to drive fast. I can haul serious ass relative to normal traffic and still get 40+ mpg. People like to bitch about Prii as if people in them ALWAYS go slow. That is absolutely not the case. When i used to drive up i-35 between san antonio and austin constantly, it was not unusual for people in Prii to simultaneously be doing the highest average speed AND the highest mpg!

I think if you START with a very efficient car, hypermiling can be a justifiable endeavor. But if you start out with a completely unexceptional machine like an Accord and then have to drive it goofy, i think you're being stupid.

JUST BUY A MORE EFFICIENT CAR AND THEN DRIVE EVEN FASTER THAN YOU USED TO AND STILL GET BETTER MPG. I can get 39mpg at a CONSTANT 90-95mph. berkeley getting 94 mpg @ 45 mph (i can do that too, but why would i). The same is true in a Prius. You can buy yourself a $5k prius, drive like you're in a high speed chase EVERYWHERE, and still get way better mpg than you would by driving a 30mpg car more slowly.

This is part of why i think car enthusiasts have it all wrong with their goofy mish mash of assumptions about hybrids and hypermiling. If y'all REALLY wanted to haul ass regularly, like i do, you would be a lot more receptive to the idea of hauling ass in a hybrid. Hybrid and going fast are not mutually exclusive at all. You want to drag race? Get a car for that and dont bitch about mpg. You want to drive fast? Get a cheap hybrid and watch it pay for itself in gas savings EVEN AT 90 MPH. Mine goes 112 (btw, i can go through our readers rides section here and find PILES of cars that wont do 112) but i rarely use that and have never checked MPG at that speed. Ive had my insight for 3 years and it's already well past paying for itself vs the 30-40 mpg car i had before (2.0 mazda3).

wrongwheeldrive wrote: In reply to dean1484: Yup, she just got her first national-level trophy at the DC prosolo last weekend! She is starting to get really fast, last local SCCA event she raw-timed all of novice class and then some. I only see him with his numerous autoX/rallyX cars, haven't yet seen the hypermiler in person so it would be cool if you could snap a pic.

Or you could have a millage test at the next challenge. Put one gallon of fuel in the car at the track and give a prescribed rout. See who goes furthest. Winner gets a full tank of gas. Everyone else has to call AAA

Shaun wrote:

alfadriver wrote: And it's also interesting to see that driving a "right speed" in lights actually gets me through them at the exact same time as the people who jump them- they just spend time waiting as I roll up behind them. 6 of one, half dozen of another.

Visiting my folks in LA recently I read that coordinated light timing had been unleashed across the LA basin. Go the speed limit, make the lights. Why didn't I think of that years ago? Anyway, that is a massive systemic efficiency improvement.

here in Atlantic City, the towns leading to it are timed. You can go from longport, through Margate and Ventnor without hitting a light if you 25ish mph on Atlantic Ave. When I was making that commute daily, I had great fun doing the speed limit and missing all the lights while all the leadfoots were racing from one set of lights to the next.

I would see the same folks day in and day out doing that.. while I would just coast along. I never did figure out why they never learned the lights were timed

Vigo wrote: Im kind of surprised this thread got this big without me ever noticing it. My take on hypermiling: BORING. My opinions would not be popular on Honda Insight forums, but ive said many times that the great thing about having a high-mpg car is it's the cheapest way to drive fast. I can haul serious ass relative to normal traffic and still get 40+ mpg. People like to bitch about Prii as if people in them ALWAYS go slow. That is absolutely not the case. When i used to drive up i-35 between san antonio and austin constantly, it was not unusual for people in Prii to simultaneously be doing the highest average speed AND the highest mpg! I think if you START with a very efficient car, hypermiling can be a justifiable endeavor. But if you start out with a completely unexceptional machine like an Accord and then have to drive it goofy, i think you're being stupid. JUST BUY A MORE EFFICIENT CAR AND THEN DRIVE EVEN FASTER THAN YOU USED TO AND STILL GET BETTER MPG. I can get 39mpg at a CONSTANT 90-95mph. berkeley getting 94 mpg @ 45 mph (i can do that too, but why would i). The same is true in a Prius. You can buy yourself a $5k prius, drive like you're in a high speed chase EVERYWHERE, and still get way better mpg than you would by driving a 30mpg car more slowly. This is part of why i think car enthusiasts have it all wrong with their goofy mish mash of assumptions about hybrids and hypermiling. If y'all REALLY wanted to haul ass regularly, like i do, you would be a lot more receptive to the idea of hauling ass in a hybrid. Hybrid and going fast are not mutually exclusive at all. You want to drag race? Get a car for that and dont bitch about mpg. You want to drive fast? Get a cheap hybrid and watch it pay for itself in gas savings EVEN AT 90 MPH. Mine goes 112 (btw, i can go through our readers rides section here and find PILES of cars that wont do 112) but i rarely use that and have never checked MPG at that speed. Ive had my insight for 3 years and it's already well past paying for itself vs the 30-40 mpg car i had before (2.0 mazda3).

or just buy a high HP streetbike. I commute on my 170HP plus bike year around more than I commute in a car and it returns great mpg while hauling ass.

In reply to Cotton:

That doesn't work up here in the northeast

wrongwheeldrive wrote: In reply to Cotton: That doesn't work up here in the northeast

good point. We rarely ever get snow in middle TN. It gets cold, but not much snow.

Solution: A street bike and a hybrid. You wont care how fast the hybrid is because a 170hp bike will make even 'quick' car's acceleration seem irrelevant.

But fast bikes, and especially cruisers, actually tend to get WORSE mpg than my car. Not that mpg is the end all, but if you really wanted to maximize mpg you wouldnt be going for the 170hp bikes.

Vigo wrote: Solution: A street bike and a hybrid. You wont care how fast the hybrid is because a 170hp bike will make even 'quick' car's acceleration seem irrelevant. But fast bikes, and especially cruisers, actually tend to get WORSE mpg than my car. Not that mpg is the end all, but if you really wanted to maximize mpg you wouldnt be going for the 170hp bikes.

Right about the bikes getting worse mileage sometimes. A liter bike to save money doesn't make sense. Coming from a big truck, sure, but in the grand scheme of things there are several cars that out perform lots of bikes for fuel economy.

I have beat on my TDI for 3 hours in the mountains and got 38 mpg overall for that tank, with protection from rain, a/c, heat, and a stereo. Can't get all that from a bike to commute on.

People who truly hypermile in commuter traffic are being nothing but ignorant and selfish. They save themselves a few pennies and a few oz of gasoline, while collectively costing everybody else stuck behind them numerous dollars and multiple gallons. If they really wanted to work towards the big picture of saving our natural resources, they would do their part to make sure traffic flowed as quickly and efficiently as possible...But alas, it's far from just hypermilers that are causing this problem.

However when traffic is flowing uninhibited and freely, there should be no issue with people hopping in the far right lane and hypermiling to their hearts content. Light hypermiling can generally net a few mpg without much difficulty, and won't harm anybody.

Unfortunately bikes suck for aerodynamics, and as a result get generally unimpressive gas mileage for what they are and should be otherwise capable of. Sure my bike with almost as much power as my fit does get slightly better fuel economy. But every time I ride it on the highway I cringe a little bit, as I can't help but think about the airflow around me and how much it could be improved upon. Both mileage and performance on motorcycles could be significantly increased through the use of a full body enclosure, which is on my "bucket list" of garage projects.