I can't believe I'm asking. what car, twin baby edition.

ok. im gonna try to keep this simple. i have a 93 bronco 4x4, which is getting parked for the summer for repairs. i need a new DD. its kind of a PITA to get my 20 month old kids in it anyways.

REQUIREMENTS:

-easily load and unload children from the ages of 20 months to about 5 or 6 yrs old, when i replace what i'm looking for now. keep in mind i'm 6'2, so i don't want a low slung civic or accord to have to bend down to load kids. i also don't need an excursion...

-28-30ish mpg.

-manual is almost a MUST. i only own one auto, and i hate it.

-i don't need any bad weather abilities. the bronco can take over when there's 4 feet of snow on the ground.

-$7-9K.

what do i want? i don't know. id like to enjoy driving it, since ill be in it for about 2 hours per day. but right now my priority is to get rid of the $400 per month fuel bill to get to work, and have a easier time getting kids in seats.

ive considered:

first gen Forester manual. ive driven one, and i like it. not sure how well front facing seats work in one.

Ford fusion, first gen. i love the car, again not sure how bad car seat will suck, and its lower than the forester.

not much else.

ive ruled out:

ford explorer/escape in all generations and trims. just no.

most, if not all SUV's, mostly due the exxon tax (fuel prices).

vans. i have one already and switching cars doesn't work for us.

ALL WAGONS. don't get me wrong, i love them, but SWMBO disapproves completely.

any input guys? i need something soon, i can literally afford a car payment if i were to lose the fuel bill each month. (i know, i know, we had this talk when i got the stupid bronco, i get it, let it go.)

thanks in advance.

-J0N

Probably a Mazda 5 would work great for you.

Car seats will be tough in a Fusion. I drive an 06 Mazda 6, and we have to keep my 4 year olds car seat on the passenger due to spacing behind the drivers seat when I'm driving, and I'm only 5'10". There's no way having two seats that size would be comfortable for regular use.

i came to suggest mazda 5 and was beaten to the punch, you may want to look at CX's as well (Although i think their mileage isn't as high and i'm not sure about manual availability)

Vibe/ matrix? It's not really a wagon it's a hatch no idea how car seats for in them tho. I know my sister uses one when she had one baby and it ran for over 200k

Check out the Saturn Vue. It may look SUVish, but it's really a wagon in disguise. 2.2L Ecotec, 5-speed manual, lots of space, and gets the gas mileage you want. I bought an 05 with heated seats and a moon roof for $3800 a few weeks ago. Super easy to get my two kids in.

In reply to GCooper: I actually disagree with you. I found that the 1st gen Fusion has the largest rear seat legroom out of any midsized sedan I have ever driven. And that's with the front driver seat in the farthest back position.

I would also add a Mazda 6, an E46 3-series, and a first gen CTS.

When shopping for my wife's car, it came down to Accord vs. Fusion. Buying used, the Fords just weren't holding up as well as the Hondas, even comparing $ for $ rather than year for year. I really like my wife's '05 Accord 4-cyl MT. In three years, between 120K to 160K miles, the only unscheduled repair has been an O2 sensor. When it does need some attention, it's incredibly easy to work on. It's not even bad to drive. Longer, wider and taller than my old E34 5-series, but it only weighs about what an E36 does. With better tires and some upgraded suspension baubles it'd be pretty light on its feet.

Or BMW... My dad has an E39 528i that turns in about 28-29 mpg and has been very reliable. It'd be a pinch for size, but a 3-series is hard to beat here. My E36 328is would routinely hit 31-32 mpg on the highway. My E36 M3 gets more like 26 mpg, but it has four doors and it's fine for two young kids and two adults on long trips if you pack efficiently.

I think an E39 BMW would fit the bill just right. One of the six cylinder models will be able to get in the upper 20's on the highway and lower 20's in the city. A manual isn't too hard to find, and for $7k, you'll be able to get a well cared for example.

Nothing that you have to bend down to get into, but no SUVs.
Something easy to get kids into, but no wagons.
Cheap and reliable, but no automatic transmission.
Must have a manual.
Must be fun to drive.

You have effectively eliminated all possible options.

A Subaru SUS is close, but misses the MPG mark.

In reply to pinchvalve: I don't know how much the interior has changed, but I could barely drive our '00 Impreza RS with the twins car seats in the back.

I like the Matrix/Vibe idea nepa03focus mentioned.

This thread is relevant to my interests too - wife is expecting a second baby in August, and while she has a Camry that does well for family hauling duties and should still work fine for two kids, I'd like to be able to fit the whole family in my DD in a pinch too. And E36 BMWs don't work very well with rear facing child seats (plus, it's averaging around 25 mpg, and less money spent on gas would be nice). My requirements are very similar down to needing room for a 6'2" driver, just a slightly lower budget.

A Fusion or Mazda 6 would probably be a decent fit; same goes for a Matrix / Vibe. But I haven't ruled out a low slung Civic or Accord right now, and an '98-'02 Accord coupe seems to be at the top of my list right now. It was a bit of a hassle to get my son into the back of the E36 (note that it's a two door convertible!) when he was younger, but somewhere before his second birthday, he figured out how to scramble into the car seat himself. I'd imagine your daughters will get to that point soon enough.

How many rear-facing car seats will you have, and how many car seats and what type in total?

For instance, we have a 2.5, 5.5, and 7 year old. We need one forward facing car seat and two boosters.

The rear-facing requirement is what makes it very difficult to fit in most cars, especially if you need to have two of them in the same car. Coupled with the suggestions to have children rear-facing until they're two years old, it definitely narrows your options. If you only need to fit one rear-facing seat you can put it in the middle rear seat or behind the passenger seat. This option gives the driver room to have their seat in a comfortable driving position.

Having two rear-facing seats, however, requires some serious rear-seat room which leaves you few options. Coupled with your manual/no SUV/no vans requirement, you're all but looking for a unicorn if you need two rear-facing car seats.

Not sure about the OP, but I'll only need one rear facing seat and one forward facing seat, plus room for me and the misses. The trouble with an E36 is there is no middle rear seat, and putting a rear facing seat behind the passenger's seat requires folding the passenger seat forward.

Just curious... you guys that need to fit the rear seats, have you bought the shortest seat to begin with? http://carseatblog.com/22818/the-ultimate-rear-facing-convertible-space-comparison-review-size-matters/

I don't have kids, but when/if I do, my plan is to get the shortest seat to minimize the chances I'll need to get a different car/maximize my choices if I do.

Miata towing a Miata? Twin Miatas! The answer^2.

I shopped the first generation Fusion. I think it's a great car. Lots of rear seat room and a big trunk. I discovered that the safety ratings improved, I think in 2008, if that matters to you.

I ended up buying a 2009 Hyundai Sonata for the wife's car. Rear-facing seat fit great (even better than the Outback). Lots of room, 31 MPG mostly highway. Electrical switchgear is poor quality, though.

David

Johnboyjjb wrote: In reply to pinchvalve: I don't know how much the interior has changed, but I could barely drive our '00 Impreza RS with the twins car seats in the back.

The SUS is a Legacy, so quite a bit bigger than in Impreza.

Man, as the father of 3, including a set of twins, you're kind of hamstringing yourself by ruling out vans and wagons...though I'd argue the Forester is a wagon. My wife and I have a van and two hatchbacks, and love them. The minivan is invaluable, but I won't sing it's praises here.

Mazda3 wagon would fall in your price range.

I recommend this.

B6 Passat. Best rear seat room, fun tunable turbo 4 and a 6 speed trans. I have the wagon VR6 model so I miss the great mileage and manual trans part of it but it's a great car. Also to consider, not much out there will be safer in the event of a crash.

Honda Element.

ProDarwin wrote: Just curious... you guys that need to fit the rear seats, have you bought the shortest seat to begin with? http://carseatblog.com/22818/the-ultimate-rear-facing-convertible-space-comparison-review-size-matters/

Thanks for the link, that had some good information! I'm a big proponent of buying the right car seat instead of changing vehicles wherever possible.

With that being said, we have a Britax Marathon, which scores at a +4.5" in that test (several scored a +5"), and that's what I'm basing my earlier comments on. The best score was +7.5", but the same seat with a less aggressive recline scored a 3.5", which was worse than our seat. Our RAV4 and Honda Odyssey both have sliding second row seats, and we have them in the rearmost position to fit this car seat. I couldn't fit the Marathon behind the driver's seat in our '00 Saab 9-3 (I'm only 5'10" and prefer a fairly upright driving position), and if it was set up in the rear passenger's side of the car, the front seat was basically unusable for anything other than a short trip. The Marathon's are so wide that I couldn't fit it in the center rear position of the Saab 9-3 without it contacting the driver's and passenger's seat. (The rule is that the car seat should have clearance between itself and the seat in front of it. Although they might clear without anyone in either seat, by the time you put the child in their car seat and a passenger in the front seat, you'll lose about 1" of clearance as compared with both seats empty.)

Best advice I can give is to take your car seats with you when you're test-driving cars to see what works for you.

KyAllroad wrote: B6 Passat. Best rear seat room, fun tunable turbo 4 and a 6 speed trans. I have the wagon VR6 model so I miss the great mileage and manual trans part of it but it's a great car. Also to consider, not much out there will be safer in the event of a crash.

SAAB 9-5. Nearly as quick, if not quicker. Probably faster? Definitely can be made faster with a tune. Way better MPG (>30 highway), and more reliable too. Bigger than the Passat as well, at least interior wise.

Not that that makes it reliable on the whole, just more reliable than a Passat.