I hate this new and dangerous "safety" law

gofastbobby wrote: Common courtesy to give police/broken vehicles/tow trucks a lane where I come from. If you've ever had to change a highway side tire you fully understand the need for rules like this.

So, um, don't change a highway-side tire? Drive on the flat to the next exit and then change it on a road where the traffic isn't going 65?

Sure, you'll probably wreck the tire beyond repair, but if it went flat at 65 mph you've probably done that already and the cost to replace a tire is less than the copay on the emergency room visit let alone the other possible consequences.

I've never understood why people stop on the freeway when their car is still physically capable of moving.

I believe the law in Florida is move over or slow to half the posted speed limit. I wish the law was not needed but the majority of society could care less about anyone but themselves. They don't have a second thought about endangering someone else's life so they can make it to their destination 3 seconds sooner. Somebody said they can see emergency lights easily on straight, flat roads yet people still run it to police cars, fire trucks, and accident scenes on a daily basis. I always cringe when I hear someone lock them up because they couldn't see our big fluorescent green truck with all of the flashing LED lights cause they weren't paying attention.

This is the society we have allowed ourselves to become. Rather than bitch and complain about the laws which protect first responders, why don't you figure out a way to fix the problem the law was created for.

I'll wait for your solution

SVreX wrote: Speed trap towns exist all over this country, and cops care a great deal a out generating revenue.

While they may get the most press, those are the exception and not the rule. There are far more non-speed-trap towns, and far more cops that care a great deal more about safety and the law than revenue.

codrus wrote:

gofastbobby wrote: Common courtesy to give police/broken vehicles/tow trucks a lane where I come from. If you've ever had to change a highway side tire you fully understand the need for rules like this.

So, um, don't change a highway-side tire? Drive on the flat to the next exit and then change it on a road where the traffic isn't going 65? Sure, you'll probably wreck the tire beyond repair, but if it went flat at 65 mph you've probably done that already and the cost to replace a tire is less than the copay on the emergency room visit let alone the other possible consequences. I've never understood why people stop on the freeway when their car is still physically capable of moving.

go back and read the whole thread. It's not always possible to drive to the next exit when it's 10 miles away and your tire rolled off the rim.

Judging by the volume of videos like this I have seen over the last 10 years it is a real problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN3oqdxa6cs

codrus wrote:

gofastbobby wrote: Common courtesy to give police/broken vehicles/tow trucks a lane where I come from. If you've ever had to change a highway side tire you fully understand the need for rules like this.

So, um, don't change a highway-side tire? Drive on the flat to the next exit and then change it on a road where the traffic isn't going 65? Sure, you'll probably wreck the tire beyond repair, but if it went flat at 65 mph you've probably done that already and the cost to replace a tire is less than the copay on the emergency room visit let alone the other possible consequences. I've never understood why people stop on the freeway when their car is still physically capable of moving.

I promise you, I wasn't changing the tire because it was time for them to be rotated. You don't always have the option of just driving to the nearest off ramp or service center.

I typically don't drive cars with things like warranties or 24 hours roadside assistance, so if something happens I fix it. Maybe it's because I stand up to pee.

I will also add this. I got out of a speeding ticket once for completely pulling off of the road and onto the grass. Gave the police officer a good 15 feet between him and traffic.

He told me flat out my pulling so far off of the road for him was the reason he decided to only give me a warning

I'm curious how many of you know the exact laws for where you live, and aren't just repeating what you're heard.

Here are the regulations for Minnesota. Here at least, the regulations aren't as draconian as people are making them out to be.

Passing certain parked vehicles.(a) When approaching and before passing a freeway service patrol, road maintenance, or construction vehicle with its warning lights activated that is parked or otherwise stopped on or next to a street or highway having two lanes in the same direction, the driver of a vehicle shall safely move the vehicle to the lane farthest away from the vehicle, if it is possible to do so.

(b) When approaching and before passing a freeway service patrol, road maintenance, or construction vehicle with its warning lights activated that is parked or otherwise stopped on or next to a street or highway having more than two lanes in the same direction, the driver of a vehicle shall safely move the vehicle so as to leave a full lane vacant between the driver and any lane in which the vehicle is completely or partially parked or otherwise stopped, if it is possible to do so.

Bobzilla wrote: go back and read the whole thread. It's not always possible to drive to the next exit when it's 10 miles away and your tire rolled off the rim.

Yeah, sorry, I missed the second page somehow.

10 miles away and tire rolled off the rim might count as "not physically capable of moving" (that's not clear to me -- you can certainly drive slowly on the rim, they do it at Le Mans all the time when a tire fails near the beginning of the 8 mile lap). That's not the point -- there are many, many people who stop on the freeway immediately for a flat tire and proceed to change it there when the car was fully capable of proceeding further on.

This is hilarious. My Dad's a cop (oh the stories you will hear) and my fiance's pelvis was shattered when she was over 15 feet off the interstate in the grass because of a car malfunction, she's lucky to be alive.

This is a good law. Period. (Also every state I've ever lived in has this law, I wasn't aware some states didn't)

Just because you have anecdotal evidence of bad enforcement means nothing for the validity of the law, fight your particular case and move on.

Also wouldn't the people "swinging to the left" be the ones in the wrong, not this particular law? Proper following distance takes care of the "slow down" part of the law.

Watched a nice example of the types of problems this "safety" law creates just a little bit ago. Rural highway, one lane each way. Two cars pulled over on the side of the northbound lane. People hugging the yellow stripe to give them room.

A cop pulled over on the south bound side of the road, across from these two. Normally the south bound drivers would hug the yellow line as well, and everyone would do their best not to smack off their drivers door mirrors. No big deal.

But we've got this nifty "safety"law. So people are afraid of getting a ticket, and are thoroughly over reacting. Many crossing the yellow line to get away from the cop. This is of course forcing the people going the other way to take drastic actions to avoid a head on collision ( which is not a mere fender bender). So they are veering nearly into the parked cars on the side of the road. Traffic is all snarled up for a good half mile each way because of this.

He'll of an improvement in safety!

stuart in mn wrote: I'm curious how many of you know the exact laws for where you live, and aren't just repeating what you're heard. Here are the regulations for Minnesota. Here at least, the regulations aren't as draconian as people are making them out to be. Passing certain parked vehicles.(a) When approaching and before passing a freeway service patrol, road maintenance, or construction vehicle with its warning lights activated that is parked or otherwise stopped on or next to a street or highway having two lanes in the same direction, the driver of a vehicle shall safely move the vehicle to the lane farthest away from the vehicle, if it is possible to do so. (b) When approaching and before passing a freeway service patrol, road maintenance, or construction vehicle with its warning lights activated that is parked or otherwise stopped on or next to a street or highway having more than two lanes in the same direction, the driver of a vehicle shall safely move the vehicle so as to leave a full lane vacant between the driver and any lane in which the vehicle is completely or partially parked or otherwise stopped, if it is possible to do so.

That is exactly my point.

Those laws are completely unenforceable to anyone with half a brain. "If it is possible to do so" is a hole so big any lawyer could drive a truck through it.

Driven5 wrote:

SVreX wrote: Speed trap towns exist all over this country, and cops care a great deal a out generating revenue.

While they may get the most press, those are the exception and not the rule. There are far more non-speed-trap towns, and far more cops that care a great deal more about safety and the law than revenue.

That may be true where you live. It is not true where I live. There are over 500 Cities in GA with a population of less than 6000, and more than 200 with a population under 1000. Trust me, it's pretty common.

Why do we need laws that are unenforceable and have financial penalties that are 5X what they are worth if revenue is not an issue?

foxtrapper wrote: Watched a nice example of the types of problems this "safety" law creates just a little bit ago. Rural highway, one lane each way. Two cars pulled over on the side of the northbound lane. People hugging the yellow stripe to give them room. A cop pulled over on the south bound side of the road, across from these two. Normally the south bound drivers would hug the yellow line as well, and everyone would do their best not to smack off their drivers door mirrors. No big deal. But we've got this nifty "safety"law. So people are afraid of getting a ticket, and are thoroughly over reacting. Many crossing the yellow line to get away from the cop. This is of course forcing the people going the other way to take drastic actions to avoid a head on collision ( which is not a mere fender bender). So they are veering nearly into the parked cars on the side of the road. Traffic is all snarled up for a good half mile each way because of this. He'll of an improvement in safety!

If you aren't able to SAFELY move over you're required to slow down, they should be slowing down not getting over. If you actually do what the law says rather than .... whatever the hell they think they're doing the law still makes sense and is safer.

You keep pointing out people not obeying the law and then saying the law is bad?

We all agree there is no shortage of stupid drivers.

The point is that these laws increase the erraticness and unpredictability of already incompetent drivers.

If "safety" were the concern, it would be far better to step up the safety training for drivers, or help officers understand better techniques for pulling people over.

http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/laws/move-over-law/

Seriously, nearly every state has varying degrees of this law, but you guys are right.... It's probably a conspiracy theory designed to take your money and cause car wrecks.

Bobzilla wrote:

plance1 wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: If you chose to crouch down 3 feet from the shoulder on I-95 to change a tire, that's simply a foolish choice. You can drive on a flat for many miles, finding a safer place to pull over and change it. BTDT, quite a number of times. This law doesn't apply to you anyhow, you don't have the proper colored flashing lights. Your safety isn't considered. Making it a law that you must change lanes, or "slow down" creates a traffic mess, with the resulting crashes and drama that I've been watching and experiencing. It doesn't make things safer, it makes them more dangerous. It might work in areas that have light traffic and plenty of room, but we've neither here. Lots of traffic, and inadequate congested roads. Here's an idea for the cops, quit pulling over only half way out of the lane. Tell the car you're pulled over to proceed to a safer spot. There are lots of alternatives to the mess this law creates.

Umm... no. You can't. The wife tried driving on a flat for a quarter mile to get to a gas station and as she pulled in the tire rolled off the rim.

Ummm, yeah you can smart guy....if you pull over on the side of the highway to change your tire then you're pretty much stupid. Seriously stupid. I once had a flat tire, I got on the side of the highway, I put my flashers on and drove on the shoulder to the next exit. A sheriff came on me and gave me an escort. By the time I got to the exit my tire was gone but thankfully my wheel wasn't destroyed but if it was I wouldn't care, its just a wheel. I've told my wife over and over, if you ever get a flat, drive to the next exit, do not stop on the side of the road.

And completely destroy the wheel in the process. MAybe you misses this part:

The wife tried driving on a flat for a quarter mile to get to a gas station and as she pulled in the tire rolled off the rim.

You want to try and be a smart ass and be demeaning you should try reading what people wrote first. The tire came OFF THE berkeleyING RIM. Bare rim on the pavement. Not only is that unsafe and dangerous, it's highly destructive. So, "smart guy", why don't you try a little reading comprehension first before trying to be a smart ass.

Since you seem to be the one who can't read lol, allow me to quote myself "By the time I got to the exit my tire was gone but thankfully my wheel wasn't destroyed but if it was I wouldn't care, its just a wheel. " Soooo anywho, no real need to inform me that its "highly destructive"

Now for the third time, its just a wheel. In my case, by the time I got to the gas station at the exit, again, quoting myself "the tire was gone."

It's not dangerous to drive 5 mph on a rim. The wheel might break but its a question of choosing what option is best. I wasn't too far from an exit so that option worked for me. If for some reason that was not an option, then I would just get out and go up and sit somewhere away from the road and smoke a cigar until a tow truck driver came, they're the ones that get paid for doing that . Now for you, in your case, I would highly recommend changing your tire on the side of the road, definitely would be a good choice for you lol!

mad_machine wrote: I will also add this. I got out of a speeding ticket once for completely pulling off of the road and onto the grass. Gave the police officer a good 15 feet between him and traffic. He told me flat out my pulling so far off of the road for him was the reason he decided to only give me a warning

I did the same thing and got yelled at, lol. The cop said that my catalytic could start a fire since the grass was to dry.

I watched over 80 people pay their "move over" fine and plead "nolo contende" in 3 nights of traffic court in Poulan, GA. I was even threatened by the Sheriff ("You know son, we've got you on video", to which I replied, "Terrific, it will prove my innocence").

Turns out they had no evidence- they never presented any video of any vehicles. The judge dismissed the remaining cases (6 of us), after the community reaped over $40,000 in revenue for charges they could not prove.

In reply to SVreX:

80 WHOLE PEOPLE. That's like, most of GA, eh? We done proved it guys, all cops are crooked and all laws are broken. /thread

I do so love sweeping generalizations made from minute sample sizes. We'll have to agree to disagree, I hate useless rules as much as anyone, but I can't be persuaded on this is one. Too many of my Dad's friends are dead from people failing to move over for me to think that money is the root of this law.

N Sperlo wrote:

SVreX wrote: C- police use it for revenue generation, not safety. They pull someone over for speeding, then watch their rear view for the next guy they can tag for a $500 revenue boost.

Do you really think the police give a E36 M3 about revenue? Sure. Maybe their serge says, "bring in more tickets". Maybe they say, "You're traffic enforcement. Get off your ass!" None of them give a E36 M3 about revenue.

I'm going to begin my response with an "ummm" the way Bobzilla begins his (and then complains when someone else does the same)

Ummm, no, they very much care about revenue. No revenue, no police jobs my friend...

Years ago our city put on a little citizen police academy. I went for the classes and one was on traffic safety. The traffic expert on the force began his presentation by noting how much money in tickets the force wrote the previous year. I raised my hand and said, "hey, you know, every time I get pulled over its always done under the pretense of safety and I always suspected it was all about revenue, and here you are basically admitting I was right all along..."

The class got real quiet and the officer who, like most police, is generally used to being in control, got beet read and started stuttering. After class I was talking to someone and I felt a hand on my shoulder, it was the officer, and he said, "What was your name again???" I said, "ummmm" (I was quoting Bobzilla even back then), "John Smith!" We both had a good laugh and I saw him around town for years, really a great guy but was a little flummoxed at our first meeting.

plance1 wrote:

N Sperlo wrote:

SVreX wrote: C- police use it for revenue generation, not safety. They pull someone over for speeding, then watch their rear view for the next guy they can tag for a $500 revenue boost.

Do you really think the police give a E36 M3 about revenue? Sure. Maybe their serge says, "bring in more tickets". Maybe they say, "You're traffic enforcement. Get off your ass!" None of them give a E36 M3 about revenue.

I'm going to begin my response with an "ummm" the way Bobzilla begins his (and then complains when someone else does the same) Ummm, no, they very much care about revenue. No revenue, no police jobs my friend... Years ago our city put on a little citizen police academy. I went for the classes and one was on traffic safety. The traffic expert on the force began his presentation by noting how much money in tickets the force wrote the previous year. I raised my hand and said, "hey, you know, every time I get pulled over its always done under the pretense of safety and I always suspected it was all about revenue, and here you are basically admitting I was right all along..." The class got real quiet and police, who are generally used to being in control, got beat read and started stuttering. After class I was talking to someone and I felt a hand on my shoulder, it was the officer, and he said, "What was your name again???" I said, "ummmm" (I was quoting Bobzilla even back then), "John Smith!" We both had a good laugh and I saw him around town for years, really a great guy but was a little flummoxed at our first meeting.

If you aren't breaking the law, how do the violations stick? I've never received a single ticket (I've only been pulled over once, and he just seemed board and looking for DUIs). Granted I've only been driving for 9 years, so we'll see.

Datsun1500 wrote: It's easier to replace a wheel than plan a funeral, buy a grave site, etc. it's a wheel. Destroy it. If someone you knew was killed changing a tire, you'd gladly buy a wheel to get them back.

I love you man!

In reply to accordionfolder:

If 1000 cars drive through I75 in Northern Kentucky when a cop isn't around and they're doing 70-75 when the limit is 65 without any problems, should they all voluntarily write a check to the local municipality?

You never received the ticket but I guarantee you, you break the law every day and don't know it.

accordionfolder wrote: You keep pointing out people not obeying the law and then saying the law is bad?

I am pointing out the easily anticipated reactions by drivers to a poorly written law. The people are trying to obey this lousy law to the best of their ability.

The law is bad in concept, and even worse in wording. The enthusiastic support police are giving it at the moment is making a bad situation even worse.