I need a distraction, learn me designing my own bag system (air-ride)

I need a distraction. My wife is on disability (well, she will be if berkeleying Guardian ever gets off their asses and pays her) and we are massively down on funds as a result. And just to make things MORE interesting, the ms3 decided to sneeze the snails guts- so I have no boost. Rather than hold a pity party, I need a distraction. SO-

I've decided I want to bag Miyuki the wagon. She's a macstrut car, so it should be easy. There are NO off the shelf systems for a 1993 corolla (who knew!) so I'm on my own. I've found piles of parts and things like that, and I have a basic concept of how it works. Air is like water, and I know damn well how valves work from controlling all the beer. Suspension theory however, is a whole other matter. Because it's a macstrut car on all 4 corners, I'm seriously considering pillowball uppers for it ( due to there actually being a performance version of it, these things exist) for adjustment. Is it really as simple as cloning the strut shape and size from the factory to the air and going from there? Is there some sort of magic voodoo I'm missing?

Going to be difficult converting a strut car to air bags. All the ones I have seen use an airbag in place of the coil springs and have a separate shock.

Hal wrote: Going to be difficult converting a strut car to air bags. All the ones I have seen use an airbag in place of the coil springs and have a separate shock.

They make bagged struts these days too, but he'll have to adapt something from another car.

JThw8 wrote:

Hal wrote: Going to be difficult converting a strut car to air bags. All the ones I have seen use an airbag in place of the coil springs and have a separate shock.

They make bagged struts these days too, but he'll have to adapt something from another car.

Yep. They call them "Bag-Overs".

I would think finding a set (or maybe 4 fronts since you are mac strut all the way around) of used Mk2/3 VW air-ride setups (because they are plentiful) and hack the existing lower mounting hardware off and welding the Toyota stuff on would be the "easy" button here.

I haven't looked in a few years, but the market was completely devoid of universal bagover parts when I was looking 3 or 4 years ago.

^this is good to know. Dub stuff is cheap and plentiful.

That's what I would do. Find something from a more common application with a similar length to the stock pieces and modify the mounts to fit your car.

your cheapest route is going to be finding a used setup and modifying it to fit.

AirLift makes universal air strut kits. Spendy though.
https://www.airliftperformance.com/product-lines/universal-air-suspension/universal-air-struts/

Once you sort the actual mac strut portion of it, alot of the cost in modern airbag setups is in the management. You can go full manual paddle valves for dirt cheap, or fully automated pressure/level sensing (AccuAir/AirLift AutoPilor V2, etc.) with wireless controllers and fancy displays

Lastly you obviously need an air source. 12V Compressors are noisy and fill slow, but it's the standard method. The more resourceful will find a way to rig up an engine driven.. .something like an old York 210. Self oiling. CFM for days. Silent operation.

Post pics!

Many old BMWs have self leveling rear suspensions that basically function by means of adding or reducing pressure to the shock tube. Newer BMWs have a similar system, but I haven't looked at them at all.

Might be hard to adapt them, but basically it is a spring, shock, and height adjustment via pressure all in one tube. The black one below.

Probably tons of them in junkyards. any e32 iL model has them, as well as most 5 series tourings.

Yeah, get an air strut from a VW application and figure out how much height has to be added or removed. It actually should be pretty doable. And Miyuki's rear struts are super easy to get to, since she's a wagon. (I replaced the rear shocks right after I bought her.)

Nobody makes a semi universal bag with a strut rod hole in middle?

Something like this? Or am I missing something here?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-2-OF-UNIVERSAL-AIR-AERO-SPORT-STRUT-BAGS-/271946157640?hash=item3f51410e48&vxp=mtr

i know some offroad applications use air shocks instead of coilovers and they see a good amount of abuse. maybe if you can find it in a shorter applications you may be able to retro-fit it.

Are you going to drive this car or just hard park it. No airbag system that I have ever seen under mucho metric dollar's has ever been any sort of fun to drive. Especially in a lightweight car like yours.

wearymicrobe wrote: Are you going to drive this car or just hard park it. No airbag system that I have ever seen under mucho metric dollar's has ever been any sort of fun to drive. Especially in a lightweight car like yours.

I don't imagine this thing will ever see a ton of abuse- its a 200k corolla that I got for 400$. It's for the lulz.

mndsm wrote:

wearymicrobe wrote: Are you going to drive this car or just hard park it. No airbag system that I have ever seen under mucho metric dollar's has ever been any sort of fun to drive. Especially in a lightweight car like yours.

I don't imagine this thing will ever see a ton of abuse- its a 200k corolla that I got for 400$. It's for the lulz.

Your going to have 250$ in brass fittings in that car before you even buy bags and compressors just a FYI. I think it would be seriously cool looking though.

If you can retrofit a york compressor onto the motor you will be able to save a good bit of cash, front and rear on a balanced left right single switch and some cheaper bags it would be doable sub 1200-1500$ I bet. Used parts much cheaper then that.

wearymicrobe wrote:

mndsm wrote:

wearymicrobe wrote: Are you going to drive this car or just hard park it. No airbag system that I have ever seen under mucho metric dollar's has ever been any sort of fun to drive. Especially in a lightweight car like yours.

I don't imagine this thing will ever see a ton of abuse- its a 200k corolla that I got for 400$. It's for the lulz.

Your going to have 250$ in brass fittings in that car before you even buy bags and compressors just a FYI. I think it would be seriously cool looking though. If you can retrofit a york compressor onto the motor you will be able to save a good bit of cash, front and rear on a balanced left right single switch and some cheaper bags it would be doable sub 1200-1500$ I bet. Used parts much cheaper then that.

Yeah, I intend on grasdrootsing this as much as I can. I can't weld, but I have people that can, and an unlimited supply of beer. I'm also a fairly good garage engineer, so home brew solutions are not a problem. Then again...... I did just discover deloreans were 4x100 and a set of refurbs would be like.... A grand- I'm not known for rational decision making.

If you aren't trying to hop then the fittings aren't terribly expensive. I had a full setup ready to go in a car including 2 viar compressors, 4 bags, hose fittings manual paddle valves, tank and mounts for under $1k.

If you want fast action hoppin' and stuntin then yeah, it's gonna get expensive quick.

I.don't need to stunt. I just need to scrape.

Cramming an old York compressor into a Corolla engine bay sounds like a good way to drive yourself crazy. There's plenty of old luxo cars with air ride pumps at the pick and pull. If such a pump (or many) isn't fast enough, you can always add an accumulator tank in the trunk.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Cramming an old York compressor into a Corolla engine bay sounds like a good way to drive yourself crazy. There's plenty of old luxo cars with air ride pumps at the pick and pull. If such a pump (or many) isn't fast enough, you can always add an accumulator tank in the trunk.

Totally different CFM and max pressure. Bags take a LOT of air and you will blow one of those things out in like a week. Vair's are available used but then you have battery issues. I have done this more then a few times though mainly on very big and heavy 50-60's cars.

On the cheap and slammed is very hard.

I will concur with the above. Either go with the York solution or quality pumps. Viar's aren't cheap but they are good, and they are rebuildable. As noted you can score a deal on used ones if you hunt.

Even if you are ok with slow air (I am) 2 pumps and a tank is better. There's slow and then there's OMFGwillthisthingeverlift.

Put one of those turtle boxes on the roof. Make it a big air tank and fill it for free at a gas station. Cover it in tourist trap bumper stickers for extra points.

Wally wrote: Put one of those turtle boxes on the roof. Make it a big air tank and fill it for free at a gas station. Cover it in tourist trap bumper stickers for extra points.

Coffin boxes are amusing, an actual coffin......

What is the issue with using this for extra cheap ass lines and fittings?

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Air%20Tools%20%2B%20Compressors%20%3E%20Air%20Compressor%20Piping%20Accessories&utm_campaign=RapidAir&utm_content=490500&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=490500&gclid=CjwKEAjwxYGuBRCtoqjkrIPDqDwSJAAnd-rCK2bSeBuHAdUkOltoujP6ee2GKVn-ZRCl0xGCZvlQ0BoCirfw_wcB

singleslammer wrote: What is the issue with using this for extra cheap ass lines and fittings? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Air%20Tools%20%2B%20Compressors%20%3E%20Air%20Compressor%20Piping%20Accessories&utm_campaign=RapidAir&utm_content=490500&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=490500&gclid=CjwKEAjwxYGuBRCtoqjkrIPDqDwSJAAnd-rCK2bSeBuHAdUkOltoujP6ee2GKVn-ZRCl0xGCZvlQ0BoCirfw_wcB

Nothing is intrinsically wrong with that just air line and fittings are not the most expensive part of the rig, its the copper distribution and switch blocks. Also 1/2 inch is huge for a car that light. You could make the thing jump off the ground with the right solenoid selection. 1/2 compatible parts that flow that much air tend to be a good bit more expensive as well. You could do the whole car on 1/4 NPT and its way easier to run the actual lines.

Ok, hear me out. What about this thought process:

Use a engine mounted compressor that runs to a multi-input/output tank. That tank runs to 4 manual valves with air pressure gauges on each that then run to each bag. Set height based on air pressure. I found some cheap electric (junk) valves on ebay at $20 each for 1/2 NPT. I am dumb with these things but am really interested in figuring out how to make a cheap kit.