Indycar 2023

alfadriver said:

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

One of Danica's points was interesting when she mentioned he visa to Japan listed her as an entertainer. 

Then she was trying to sound smart saying something about the team(s) running more unsprung weight... she didn't succeed.

That wheel went just about the only place around the speedway that didn't have people sitting.

Spectacular luck. 

So what should be a far more controversial than the last re-start- the fact that Newgarden and Ericsson dove really deep into the pits before coming back on the track to finish the last straight.  Both cars were well inside of the wall as if they were going into the pits.  

While that may be allowed, I don't think it should be- that's really dangerous. 

Let alone, the silly weaving up and down the straight- it's supposed to break the draft, but it's just like blocking going into a corner and looks really dumb.

Newgarden talked about that. The way the current rules are, he said it's unavoidable because the trailing car has such a speed advantage on the straights. He said that they have to weave around to try and break the draft, and he was going to do what ever it took to stay in front on the last lap. It's not technically blocking, because the lead car is initiating the move, and not moving in reaction to the trailing car.

I'd put that one on Indycar, you force a final lap shoot out, you're going to get desperate antics. They're begging for excitement and I'm sure over half the fans loved it and don't care that it isn't the safest. 

In reply to RacerBoy75 :

The weaving is more annoying than anything, but driving into the pits is really dangerous.  Don't they have to actually enter the pits from turn 3 now under green flag racing?  If I were Foyt, I would consider a protest for both cars going into the pits that far.

alfadriver said:

So what should be a far more controversial than the last re-start- the fact that Newgarden and Ericsson dove really deep into the pits before coming back on the track to finish the last straight.  Both cars were well inside of the wall as if they were going into the pits.  

While that may be allowed, I don't think it should be- that's really dangerous. 

Let alone, the silly weaving up and down the straight- it's supposed to break the draft, but it's just like blocking going into a corner and looks really dumb.

Agreed. You should not be allowed to cross the blend line unless you are actually pitting.

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

Not sure about what line, but at least there should be a rule against going inside the pit wall line....  Aren't there the pit board people still on the inside of that wall?  And cars running at racing speed like that......

johndej said:

I'd put that one on Indycar, you force a final lap shoot out, you're going to get desperate antics. They're begging for excitement and I'm sure over half the fans loved it and don't care that it isn't the safest. 

The final lap is always dangerous unless it's a blow out. 
     Racing is dangerous.  Luckily only rarely does it cost a life. Remove all the danger and it's boring.  

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

So looking at the end again, there are two lines going into the pits- the blend line that is at an angle and then the wall line.   Those two come together just before the butt end of the wall.

Both cars didn't get back on the track until after that point.  But both cars were driving right at the end of the wall at full speed.  Insane.  Basically, both cars left the nominal track surface to gain an advantage.

Thankfully, there's an inner wall to protect the people from pit lane accidents.

I follow several IndyCar groups on FB and there's a vocal group of fans who think there were conspiratorial shenanigans involved with all the red flags at a Penske-owned track leading to Team Penske winning.

What's your take:  shenanigans, or no shenanigans?  (Spoiler:  my take is "no shenanigans," just a NASCAR-like refusal by Race Control to let the race end under yellow.)

The 500 saw increased popularity this year both on TV and in person attendance. They're trying to grow the sport.

If you're trying to continue to grow a sport, you want the crown jewel of the year to be a big deal. You want the people watching to remain tuned in, and you want the exciting finish to be replayed all over TV and the internet. Finishing under caution is the least dramatic and exciting possibility regardless of who owns the winning car. Yeah, it happened in 2020, but there weren't any fans in the stands either, and the TV ratings were the lowest they've been in decades even with the local blackout lifted:

FWIW, I was in Turn 4, and there were a bunch of cheers when they announced the decision to red flag rather than finishing under caution.

In reply to bluebarchetta :

I don't.  To really "fix" the race, you'd have to make sure the following cars had poor starts.  They did, but what's the bigger name at this point- Foyt or Penske?  Both of which had American drivers.  Farruchi had a bad start- otherwise, he would have probably followed Newgarden through and had a better chance to pass him before the start finish.  How do you get all the teams to agree to that.

Especially at the last possible moment in a race?

No conspiracy on a defined Pensky win but yeah everyone is following NASCAR to prioritize the entertainment value of not allow a race to finish under caution.

I was at the Indy500 this year. I was very glad they red flagged it (again) to give me a chance to see them race it out during my once-in-a-lifetime trip to the 500. I do wish they had been able to race out those last 4 laps, I think it would have been an amazing shootout, but it's not Indycar's fault the back-markers wrecked on the straightaway. The fans definitely cheered when the red came out and they booed when Ereicson was critical of the red flag in his interview, so I think I'm in the majority. 

I know everybody likes to pile on NASCAR, but what they get right (and Indycar and F1 get wrong) is that they have clear rules that dictate the end of race situation. If the yellow comes out before the white flag everybody knows they're doing a green-white-checkered. There's no race director's discretion, no room for explicit or implicit bias to slip in, and no controversy. It's very clear how things are done. The other sanctioning bodies would be wise to decide how they want to handle things and write it down. Personally I think ONE attempt at a green white checkered for a race that fails to reach the white flag under green is the right balance and would be great in Indycar. NASCAR's unlimited attempts at G-W-C has created too many chaotic endings IMO. But lets give the drivers one chance to settle it on the track. 

One suggestion, maybe, is to somehow sweep the track at some point during the race if there are no significant yellows?  That of course would require some sort of mandatory red flag.  You could do a mandatory pit stop I suppose, but that makes pit strategy far less interesting.

It was very clear that one of the crashes (I think it was Sting Ray) was simply the result of the car leaving the line.  Since the race had run for a very long time and the marbles off the line were pretty extreme and a crash was almost inevitable.  

The only real fault I have with that last red is that it should have come out immediately.  Given where the crash was, and it was on both sides of the track, they could have red flagged it and brought the cars immediately into the pits.  Even if they kept it yellow to clean it up like that- it would have been a pretty dangerous clean up thanks to the nature of the wreck.  So I saw that as a red as soon as there was a car on either side of the track on the straight.

It's too bad that they waited, having two laps would have been fun and less controversial.

How about not counting laps under pace car?

Question for those who have better followed Indycar- why the move to downtown Detroit from Belle Isle?  

alfadriver said:

Question for those who have better followed Indycar- why the move to downtown Detroit from Belle Isle?  

I think it was more the city than Indycar that wanted the change. Folks didn't like Belle Isle being used for the race, making it less accessible for people who just wanted to visit the park. And the city felt that a downtown race would do a better job of showcasing the city itself and bring more business to the downtown area.

I'm just hoping that the old Indycar paddock on Belle Isle can be made available for autocross again. That was a great venue.

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks!  And I hope so, too. Really enjoyed using that for an auto cross venue. 

I sure hope this race means that Detroit gets some good money to improve all of these streets.  Jefferson seems so nice at normal speeds in a real car- but it's pretty clear it's hardly a smooth street.  Interesting track, I suppose.  

In reply to alfadriver :

The layout is a bit odd and almost promotes crashes.