Why not run avgas in your car? After all, it promises higher octane with no ethanol at a reasonable price, and it’s conveniently as close as your local airport.
“People think they have found a glitch in the system, like it’s a cheap alternative to race fuels,” notes Zachary J. Santner, manager of production engineering and business optimization at Sunoco …
A lot of Formula Ford engines (including mine) are run on 100LL. it's a good fit because they're old pushrod motors with no cats or O2 sensors and, at least at my local airport I can pull the truck and trailer right up to the pumps and fill the cans.
My friend with 30ish mostly carb'd motorcycles runs them on 100LL because it can sit forever. We have no access to non-ethanol gas beyond buying VP T4 for $120/5 gal pail.
is AV gas color tinted like "farm" diesel is tinted red ?
mfennell said:My friend with 30ish mostly carb'd motorcycles runs them on 100LL because it can sit forever. We have no access to non-ethanol gas beyond buying VP T4 for $120/5 gal pail.
Home Depot has high octane no ETOH fuel in the weed wacker section for about 15$ a gallon. That is what I use. Works well in the two strokes as they also sell ETOH free premix in 1:50 and 1:40
I find it bizarre that I'm the guy to say this, but wouldn't it be a really good idea to not add to the number of engines that are sending lead particles out their tailpipes?
californiamilleghia said:is AV gas color tinted like "farm" diesel is tinted red ?
It's blue. I use the translucent white fuel jugs and it looks like I've got 20 gallons of washer fluid in my trailer.
Not really race car related, but back in the early 80s, a DC-3 freighter would pass through our FBO fairly regularly to pick up freight. He'd pay for a certain amount of gas in order to get the bulk discount, even though the plane wouldn't take it all, and let all of us flight instructors fill up our cars with the excess. My MGB ran great on 100LL!
wae said:I find it bizarre that I'm the guy to say this, but wouldn't it be a really good idea to not add to the number of engines that are sending lead particles out their tailpipes?
Sort of related, according to the U.S. Energy Information Information Administration, the amount of avgas (a leaded product) sold has been steadily decreasing. As of 2020, U.S. sales/deliveries have fallen to 412,000 gallons per day–so, if my math is right, about 150,380,000 gallons per year.
Here’s the chart for the above link:
But, yes, that seems like a bit of lead emissions in this day and age. I don’t have the numbers for leaded race fuel sales, but I’m guessing it’s not 150m gallons per year.
wearymicrobe said:Home Depot has high octane no ETOH fuel in the weed wacker section for about 15$ a gallon. That is what I use. Works well in the two strokes as they also sell ETOH free premix in 1:50 and 1:40
Cheapest I can find at HD is $22/gal in the 2.1 gallon size. VP T4 is cheaper. My RS250 seems to get 20mpg - I'd be buying (and disposing of) a whole lot of cans! I do use the pre-mix in my infrequently used 2 stroke yard equipment.
At the end of the season, I might fill a 5 gallon can with Sunoco 100 Octane unleaded at the track to use to winter prep the bikes. It's cheaper than T4 (IIRC) and I won't have to dispose of the cans.
David S. Wallens said:wae said:I find it bizarre that I'm the guy to say this, but wouldn't it be a really good idea to not add to the number of engines that are sending lead particles out their tailpipes?
Sort of related, according to the U.S. Energy Information Information Administration, the amount of avgas (a leaded product) sold has been steadily decreasing. As of 2020, U.S. sales/deliveries have fallen to 412,000 gallons per day–so, if my math is right, about 150,380,000 gallons per year.
Here’s the chart for the above link:
But, yes, that seems like a bit of lead emissions in this day and age. I don’t have the numbers for leaded race fuel sales, but I’m guessing it’s not 150m gallons per year.
Whole bunch of airplanes out there nowadays running auto gas to save money.
Someone mentioned Home Depot. I like to pick up a gallon of Kleen Strip xylene and bring it to hill climbs in case the local gas isn't very good. It's 114 octane. I mix a gallon with 3 or 4 gallons of 92 for an effective octane of 97-99. It's $25 a gallon but totally cheaper than a bent connecting rod. Now I just keep a gallon with me. It can go straight in the tank, just don't get it on anything. I do add a tiny bit of ATF, supposedly for top end lubrication but I just like the smell.
By far the best smell, though, is running silver tequila in the meth injection system. So good.
wae said:I find it bizarre that I'm the guy to say this, but wouldn't it be a really good idea to not add to the number of engines that are sending lead particles out their tailpipes?
Yeah, I won't defend it. OTOH, my friend's total yearly usage is probably equivalent to 2 hours flight time in a piston-powered twin aircraft.
The good news is that an unleaded substitute for aircraft is available and (very) gradually starting to appear. I think California is really going to push the issue. It's taken so long because the market is tiny and shrinking, and the liability is off-the-charts.
G100UL is slowly becoming more widely available...
Did I miss the part of the article where it says it's illegal? Why? I think it's primarily because there are no road taxes put on AvGas.
The other aspect that seems to be missing is that AvGas is wildly more stable than car gas. It takes way longer to go stale (don't know the stats).
Obviously, don't put it in anything with a cat.
My dad and stepmom ran Avgas in their vintage Formula Vees about 25 years ago. Air cooled, 1200cc motor with maybe 45-50hp ran great on it
I drained Avgas out of a plane I bought, only to find later it doesn't sour in 6 weeks like gas. I will say Mr Truck was very happy with the change of diet. I mean seat-of-the-pants noticeable. 😎
dr_strangeland said:Someone mentioned Home Depot. I like to pick up a gallon of Kleen Strip xylene and bring it to hill climbs in case the local gas isn't very good. It's 114 octane. I mix a gallon with 3 or 4 gallons of 92 for an effective octane of 97-99. It's $25 a gallon but totally cheaper than a bent connecting rod. Now I just keep a gallon with me. It can go straight in the tank, just don't get it on anything. I do add a tiny bit of ATF, supposedly for top end lubrication but I just like the smell.
By far the best smell, though, is running silver tequila in the meth injection system. So good.
Hey, we’ve written about that: Toluene or Xylene: Legit low-buck octane boosters?
914Driver said:I drained Avgas out of a plane I bought, only to find later it doesn't sour in 6 weeks like gas. I will say Mr Truck was very happy with the change of diet. I mean seat-of-the-pants noticeable. 😎
Meanwhile, I was broke and needed fuel so I pumped the seven year old fuel out of a project car and drove on it just fine. (Given that it was Ohio fuel, it was 10% ethanol)
It's amazing what an evaporative emissions system can do for fuel stability. I would say "modern" but the good types are the pre OBD-II evap systems that would close off with the engine off. The ones that would puff at you when you took the cap off on a hot day. OBD-II systems usually vent the tank to atmosphere through the charcoal canister, they don't ever build pressure. This has the effect of allowing the lighter parts of the fuel to evaporate off, leaving a varnish with poor ignitability. Sure, it traps the hydrocarbons in the canister and prevents emissions, but the fuel works better if they stay in the fuel 
Is the engine in your car a large displacement, big bore, slow revving engine, designed to run at a constant RPM all day long?
Then why run the wrong fuel in it?
My dad ran it in the 70's in his 1600 air cooled vw off road racer
In reply to Iusedtobefast :
Large bore, slow revving air cooled engine then
(Those ACVWs were wildly oversquare. I bet it was in part to get as much cooling fin as possible around the top of the combustion chamber)
we-found-the-narc said:Did I miss the part of the article where it says it's illegal? Why? I think it's primarily because there are no road taxes put on AvGas.
The other aspect that seems to be missing is that AvGas is wildly more stable than car gas. It takes way longer to go stale (don't know the stats).
Obviously, don't put it in anything with a cat.
Bro the title says "alternative to racing fuel." Road taxes aren't applicable to off-road vehicles. Let's also take a look at the same gov't that ruined the fuel jug.
wae said:I find it bizarre that I'm the guy to say this, but wouldn't it be a really good idea to not add to the number of engines that are sending lead particles out their tailpipes?
Yeah, I don't feel good about that. In fact the whole racing thing is ecological disaster. Driving a truck and trailer hundreds of miles to drive an old car around a closed circuit for hours before driving the truck and trailer back the same distance. I try and mitigate that by being responsible in other aspects of my life but still.
APEowner said:wae said:I find it bizarre that I'm the guy to say this, but wouldn't it be a really good idea to not add to the number of engines that are sending lead particles out their tailpipes?
Yeah, I don't feel good about that. In fact the whole racing thing is ecological disaster. Driving a truck and trailer hundreds of miles to drive an old car around a closed circuit for hours before driving the truck and trailer back the same distance. I try and mitigate that by being responsible in other aspects of my life but still.
FWIW, leaded race gas is worse than Avgas. 100LL is about 2 grams/gal of TEL. Sunoco 110 is about 4.
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