Is Grassroots Motorsports grass roots?

A fellow subscriber at work and I were discussing this as we both have really dug in and read a lot issues from the early days to now.

Being working guys we kick around the $5,000 car. Can we get more articles like the $2015 stuff? Can we swing a Autocross car for $2,500?

Again with the definition of "grassroots".

It's not about necessarily building a $500 car, or a $5000 car. It's about built vs bought, about budgets that are relatively small for the competition, about individuals instead of for-profit teams.

For example, my runs at the Targa Newfoundland were grassroots. I built the car myself in my home garage, paid for most of it out of my own pocket and took on factory teams. There was a lot of personal sacrifice to do it. But it sure wasn't done for $5000. That covers the entry fee.

You could argue that when Morgan goes to Le Mans, it's a grassroots effort. Especially if they have people volunteering.

Heck, we've got one of our own taking on the One Lap of America in his tuba hauler. Now, I don't know if you've priced CTS-V wagons, but they're not $5000. Still, he's taking on big name tuners in what is essentially a daily driver. Is that grassroots? Most definitely.

Can you build an autocross car for $2500? Sure. Go buy a cheap Miata or Civic. There, you're done. That was easy. GRM basically did that with their yellow Miata that is now racing Chump or LeMons.

Every issue has $2015 stuff. Every issue has higher dollar stuff, too, because there are people interested in that. None of them are the typical tuner mag list of purchased parts.

FYI, the demographics for the magazine are different than the (self proclaimed) demographics of the forum denizens.

Keith Tanner wrote: Again with the definition of "grassroots". It's not about necessarily building a $500 car, or a $5000 car. It's about built vs bought, about budgets that are relatively small for the competition, about individuals instead of for-profit teams. For example, my runs at the Targa Newfoundland were grassroots. I built the car myself in my home garage, paid for most of it out of my own pocket and took on factory teams. There was a lot of personal sacrifice to do it. But it sure wasn't done for $5000. That covers the entry fee. You could argue that when Morgan goes to Le Mans, it's a grassroots effort. Especially if they have people volunteering. Heck, we've got one of our own taking on the One Lap of America in his tuba hauler. Now, I don't know if you've priced CTS-V wagons, but they're not $5000. Still, he's taking on big name tuners in what is essentially a daily driver. Is that grassroots? Most definitely. Can you build an autocross car for $2500? Sure. Go buy a cheap Miata or Civic. There, you're done. That was easy. GRM basically did that with their yellow Miata that is now racing Chump or LeMons. Every issue has $2015 stuff. Every issue has higher dollar stuff, too, because there are people interested in that. None of them are the typical tuner mag list of purchased parts. FYI, the demographics for the magazine are different than the (self proclaimed) demographics of the forum denizens.

relax boy.... no one is going to take your Miata away from you..........

oldeskewltoy wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Again with the definition of "grassroots". It's not about necessarily building a $500 car, or a $5000 car. It's about built vs bought, about budgets that are relatively small for the competition, about individuals instead of for-profit teams. For example, my runs at the Targa Newfoundland were grassroots. I built the car myself in my home garage, paid for most of it out of my own pocket and took on factory teams. There was a lot of personal sacrifice to do it. But it sure wasn't done for $5000. That covers the entry fee. You could argue that when Morgan goes to Le Mans, it's a grassroots effort. Especially if they have people volunteering. Heck, we've got one of our own taking on the One Lap of America in his tuba hauler. Now, I don't know if you've priced CTS-V wagons, but they're not $5000. Still, he's taking on big name tuners in what is essentially a daily driver. Is that grassroots? Most definitely. Can you build an autocross car for $2500? Sure. Go buy a cheap Miata or Civic. There, you're done. That was easy. GRM basically did that with their yellow Miata that is now racing Chump or LeMons. Every issue has $2015 stuff. Every issue has higher dollar stuff, too, because there are people interested in that. None of them are the typical tuner mag list of purchased parts. FYI, the demographics for the magazine are different than the (self proclaimed) demographics of the forum denizens.

relax boy.... no one is going to take your Miata away from you..........

but if you're offering, I'll take it!

Look through the magazine and read about Rallycross nationals. That whole scene is incredibly grassroots in every sense of the word. My co-driver won in PF in his daily driver that he's put over 150k miles on and running wheels I bought from a sketchy dude out of the back of a minivan and plastidipped on my lawn.
He's right there in the magazine smiling and being quoted while holding his trophy.
There have been more "pro racing" articles in the last few years, but if you start hanging out at the track you realize that there is a lot of money being spent by people who like to drive around in funny shaped circles. Advertisers sell a lot of stuff to these people. Advertisers also pay GRM money. These guys build stuff in their garage just like you and me even if you don't have an opportunity to talk to them.

You guys are right - maybe I need to read "Frugal Motorsports".

That's the message board. Best deal out there for entertainment and information and general cheap assness.

I think if every issue of GRM magazine was just "the cheap bastards guide to cars/racing" it would get old pretty fast plus as mentioned thats what we have the forums for to bench race over.

In reply to Datsun310Guy:

Do the articles make you think? Maybe about putting a project together yourself by inexpensive means?

To me, this is one magazine that should make a reader consider doing something themselves. Autocross, rallycross, track days, race, land speed racing, build a car, subtly modify a car- and a lot more.

PLUS- give a reader some confidence to try it.

The TV shows try to do that as well, but theirs are more overt in advertising a product that needs to be installed.

While I've autocrossed my GTV for over a decade, and did 3 challenges, and have kind of stopped 3 years ago- I STILL think about doing a challenge car.

Not sure if that happens to other readers.

mazdeuce wrote: That's the message board. Best deal out there for entertainment and information and general cheap assness.

Quoted for truth. We are some cheap bastards around here. At least I am.

If you work on it, haul it, thrash it around a track, sit in your shop/driveway and stare at it, or even sit in the drivers seat and make vroom noises, you are probably grassroots at heart. It more a feeling than a price.

It makes me want to try all kinds of things. And because of that I have kept my magazines with the buyers guide kind of ones for different cars saved. Old GRM's take up a lot of space on my bookshelf

Jaynen wrote: I think if every issue of GRM magazine was just "the cheap bastards guide to cars/racing" it would get old pretty fast plus as mentioned thats what we have the forums for to bench race over.

It would also go bankrupt quickly.

Cheap bastards don't buy stuff. Advertisers don't need to waste their money on them.

Thankfully, the Suddards are kind enough to give us cheap bastards a place to blab about our great ideas, or at least our ill-conceived notions!

Thanks Tim and Margie!

When I did One lap, the enrty fee cost me more than the car!! (not saying I was all that competitive, but sure had a lot of fun)

Grassroots is defined as "the most basic level of an activity or organization." So technically, the bottom team in F1 is grassroots.

I think the magazine does a good job of mixing it up. Like most mainstream magazines, there is always going to be an issue you're not going to like, because there is nothing that appeals to you. I've had that happen several times and GRM is no exception.

The articles on how to break into racing or turn pro are very grassroots. Is it cheap to do? Nope. But as others have stated, it focuses on individual effort, in the "Here is what YOU might have to do in order to go pro" way. The DIY ethic is strong, is what I'm saying.

Aside from that, I think the fact they are the only people putting on a 20xx Challenge shows where the heart is. Sure, they put on the Ultimate Track Car Challenge as well, but it tickles me to death that they let anybody show up and run what they brought, and some of the smaller, individual efforts have put in good showings against much better funded teams.

Datsun310Guy wrote: You guys are right - maybe I need to read "Frugal Motorsports".

Start it up, I'll read it.

I will say this is one of the very few topics I get sick of seeing on this board. Everyone has different income levels, life situations, monetary goals for retirement. I'm hardly rich and don't have a 6 figure income, but I live cheaply in a lot of other ways so I can spend my money on cars and traveling.

I predict the next rehashing of this topic around SCCA Nationals.

True enough the community here while diverse in income and interest has some shared spirit. When I am reading the threads about buying vipers or aston martins the discussion is as good and positive as when I am reading about buying a crapcan neon to go rallycross and I guess to me that spirit is what is GRM

pinchvalve wrote: Grassroots is defined as "the most basic level of an activity or organization." So technically, the bottom team in F1 is grassroots.

Caterham actually had a crowdfunded effort to get on the grid at Abu Dhabi last year. Which sounds pretty grassroots to me

FWIW, I consider anything under $20k for a full on autox/track day car very grassroots.....otherwise you might need to subscribe to a lemons publication ...

Grassroots can literally mean F1. The Connew F1 car was designed and built in one guys garage and raced in both F1 races, F1 Grand Prix and with an engine change in F5000

We have this silly pissing match every month about grassroots NOT BEING low $$.

Personally the best thing I can think of to make the challenge better would be to completely lift the budget cap and let people run wild. You could turn up with a brand new $2.5M Bugatti, but it would loose hands down to just about anything the Nelson family brings as 50% of the score would be on ingenuity.

A privateer LMP1 effort going to LeMans is more grassrotts to me than getting a factory backed Show Room stock drive at SCCA NAtionals

I guess the better question is has GRM moved away from what it was 10 years ago? I know for me, the coverage has shifted so far away from what initially attracted me that I hardly read it anymore.

That's a silly point. Of course it has moved from where it was 10 years ago. So has the world, and so have you. To not move is to stagnate.

pinchvalve wrote: I guess the better question is has GRM moved away from what it was 10 years ago? I know for me, the coverage has shifted so far away from what initially attracted me that I hardly read it anymore.

It has shifted a little, only because we have moved 10 years into the future.

Ten years ago we did write more about Sentra SE-Rs, CRXs, Neons, etc. Today, sadly, those cars are largely gone. We're not ignoring them, but they no longer make up the bulk of the grids at the local autocrosses.

Plus today it's easier to get on track--LeMons, Chump, track days, etc. So there's been some shift there, too.

I think our readers have gotten a tad bit older/mature, too, so we been sneaking in some more old school cars that appeal to that market--think stuff like the recent 2.3-16 Vintage Views.

The basic focus of the magazine hasn't changed. Ten years ago the ship was steered by Tim, Margie, JG and I, and we're still all here in the same positions.

I should add that we listen to you guys, too. You want more rallycross? Well, we now have a rallycross project. More low-buck, high-speed stuff? There's the Formula 500. More fab? We have more fab in the works for 2015--more E30 stuff, too.

The feedback helps, so thanks.