Learn Me: Audi Allroad

I have a line on a 2003 Audi Allroad 2.7t, manual for very cheap. Are these a check engine light blinking time bomb like I have been led to believe? Please advise, give horror stories, etc.

2.7t's like to puke oil from every orifice, cam adjuster seals, K03s you name it. The pneumatic suspension is problematic, in both the controller and pump failures.

It's a shame as if they weren't so terrible they'd be an easy to make 400hp go most anywhere, haul most anything comfortable capable vehicle, but as they are I wouldn't recommend one to my worst enemy.

I had the non allroad A6 version with the 2.7t and 6 speed. It had check engine lights, rear windows that some times operated on their own and then wouldn't go up, a crazy amount of front suspension parts, and an overly complicated engine. Oh and on the Allroad, you get the leveling suspension just to make it more complicated.

But it was a blast driving down the highway. It felt like it could pull for days and way to easy to pass everyone. I'd admit, I drove like a complete dick. It was a 2000 and was ten years old and started to $5 and $10 me to death (notice I didn't say nickel and dime).

Things to watch out for: the intake boot will be ripped and will need to be replaced if it hasn't been already, there is an auxiliary electric coolant pump in the 'V' below the intake that can start leaking. Listen for suspension 'clunks', because when one link goes, the rest aren't far behind.

That's what I was thinking, sounds like I definitely don't want to try to keep it, and it may even be too scary for a fix and flip.

A big b5 s4 with a complicated air suspension. I lust after them but avoid them even with the means to deal with them.

Here we go again with the VAG haters. I own one of these, the car is the BOMB. I've had NO issues with the 2.7t motor and it has 140k miles on it. Regular maintenance, that's it.

The K03's are a known weak spot, but they last alot longer in the allroad vs the B5 S4, people have well over 100k miles on them. Bear in mind that turbo's don't last forever and to replace them on a 2.7t means pulling the engine. Good news is K04's bolt right on and you can make 475hp with them easily. Like on my car.

The air suspension has its issues, but there are several kits out there to delete it, or you can get lifetime warranty airbags from Arnott.

As with any VAG product, it's ALL about how it was maintained. Records, records, records!!! If you buy one of these that's been neglected, prepare for the car to bitch slap you. If it's been taken care of, it'll be fine.

docwyte wrote: Bear in mind that turbo's don't last forever and to replace them on a 2.7t means pulling the engine. Good news is K04's bolt right on and you can make 475hp with them easily. Like on my car.

Um... the 2.7TT is a bitch to work on, an even bigger bitch to remove. Most people (even "car guys") don't consider engine removal part of the process of owning a daily driver, especially when it has to be done at "only" 140k miles.

The VAG hate is warranted for exact reasons such as this. Ask a shop how much it is to do the engine pull/turbo swap. Minimum $3k I bet. That car ain't worth $3k of maintenance.

Subaru Outback XT. Maybe not as fast as the later Allroads, but I think it's the equal of the earlier Allroads. And you get Subaru reliability rather than Audi. And I like Audis.

David

As a VAG tech, I absolutely loath these cars. Call me a hater, I don't care. In theory these things can cover a boat payment and part of my house payment being a commission tech. But no thanks. A 4.2 V8 would be a LITTLE better choice, but not much.

Upper control arms every year. Front air springs every two years. Valve cover gaskets and cam tensioner seals every other year too. CV boots seem to last about an oil change. Exhaust gas temperature sensor faults are almost always stored in the ECU. Plan for 4 hours to replace the O2 sensors and even more to do the catalysts. Ignition control modules will give misfires occasionally. PCV hoses made of brittle plastic that break looking at them. Typical Audi where the complete front end comes off to do the timing belt (actually easy after doing it a few times), which requires special tools to hold the cams and crank. Most likely the motor mounts are failed because they never get replaced, just a measly 20 hours for that job.

Like mentioned, the best way to work on them is pull the entire motor and trans assembly. Then you can do all the gaskets, seals, O2 sensors, motor mounts, and EGT sensors in one shot.

docwyte wrote: Here we go again with the VAG haters. I own one of these, the car is the BOMB. I've had NO issues with the 2.7t motor and it has 140k miles on it. Regular maintenance, that's it. The K03's are a known weak spot, but they last alot longer in the allroad vs the B5 S4, people have well over 100k miles on them. Bear in mind that turbo's don't last forever and to replace them on a 2.7t means pulling the engine. Good news is K04's bolt right on and you can make 475hp with them easily. Like on my car. The air suspension has its issues, but there are several kits out there to delete it, or you can get lifetime warranty airbags from Arnott. As with any VAG product, it's ALL about how it was maintained. Records, records, records!!! If you buy one of these that's been neglected, prepare for the car to bitch slap you. If it's been taken care of, it'll be fine.

So the cars are the bomb and great except for the major expensive repairs that need done, right. I think that's what everyone says; how it comes out depends on whether you're forgiving of such things or not. To me any car that needs the engine pulled at 100k miles for a repair is not well made. That is, by my definition, an unreliable vehicle.

So you guys think turbos last forever? Really? I have a bridge to sell you...

4 hours to replace O2 sensors? Seriously?! I did them on my B5 S4 Avant in 1.5 hours, in my garage, with hand tools and I'm not a professional tech. All that stuff you claim to have to replace every year/every other year is total BS.

I just love how everyone on the board thinks they can buy a car for $500 and it should last 500k miles without having to do anything but put gas in it and maybe occasionally change the oil.

Newsflash! Things wear out with mileage! German cars don't take well to being neglected, buy a cheap abused example and expect to have to pay.

docwyte wrote: So you guys think turbos last forever? Really? I have a bridge to sell you... 4 hours to replace O2 sensors? Seriously?! I did them on my B5 S4 Avant in 1.5 hours, in my garage, with hand tools and I'm not a professional tech. All that stuff you claim to have to replace every year/every other year is total BS. I just love how everyone on the board thinks they can buy a car for $500 and it should last 500k miles without having to do anything but put gas in it and maybe occasionally change the oil. Newsflash! Things wear out with mileage! German cars don't take well to being neglected, buy a cheap abused example and expect to have to pay.

So Audi in their infinite wisdom placed what is known to be a wear part in a location that requires pulling the engine to replace it and you're still saying this is a good car?

If you pay $40,000 for it does it make it easier to pull the engine?

How is this any different than any other modern V6 bi turbo car? Yeah, the packaging kinda sucks, but there isn't a heck of a lot of room in the engine bay. Audi isn't the only one that has stuff that's hard to get to. The spark plugs on the back of a Mitsu 3000VR4 come to mind...

It's not an inline 4 or 6 with tons of space in there.

The flip side of "holy crap look what you have to do at 140k miles" is that once you do it, it's good to go engine-bay wise for another 140k miles.

Just roll it into initial cost of purchase and it's fine. Up to you at that point if it's worth it.

docwyte wrote: So you guys think turbos last forever? Really? I have a bridge to sell you... 4 hours to replace O2 sensors? Seriously?! I did them on my B5 S4 Avant in 1.5 hours, in my garage, with hand tools and I'm not a professional tech. All that stuff you claim to have to replace every year/every other year is total BS. I just love how everyone on the board thinks they can buy a car for $500 and it should last 500k miles without having to do anything but put gas in it and maybe occasionally change the oil. Newsflash! Things wear out with mileage! German cars don't take well to being neglected, buy a cheap abused example and expect to have to pay.

I don't think anyone said anything about a turbo lasting forever. MOST people would be turned off by the fact that it takes 3.5 hours to replace them with a nice side note of "Labor time does not include R&I engine" Doh!

You're right. It's not 4 hours to do the O2 sensors, it's 3.5 book time when considering overlap (and catalyst design and O2 sensor placement changes over the years on these cars, so YMMV).

I understand that the 1 Allroad you own represents all of them out there. I'll just ignore the dozen that I have as regular customers that I see every 5K for oil changes, MILs, suspension noise, collapsed air springs, and worn out tie rod ends that are spewing CV grease all over the place. Can't forget the excessive toe wear on the front tires because of the adjustable suspension. The toe is only correct in one of the 4 height settings. Absolutely genius.

In fact I just replaced an Arnott air spring on Friday, it lasted 18 months and I had already warrantied the other side which lasted 4 months. Yep, great product.

Just because you ignore or don't see all the common problems doesn't mean you don't have them. I would bet that if I put your Allroad on a lift I would find $1000-$1500 worth of needed repairs in a 15 minute check out. Even more if I did a complete car scan...

I think you need to be the OP's personal tech since you give them your stamp of approval.

docwyte wrote: How is this any different than any other modern V6 bi turbo car? Yeah, the packaging kinda sucks, but there isn't a heck of a lot of room in the engine bay. Audi isn't the only one that has stuff that's hard to get to. The spark plugs on the back of a Mitsu 3000VR4 come to mind... It's not an inline 4 or 6 with tons of space in there.

It may not be that different from any other "modern v6 bi turbo car," but few people go shopping looking for a "modern v6 bi turbo car." They look to fulfill a role and the Audi isn't that fast or that great compared to other easier and cheaper to service cars. Maybe a v8 would have made more sense. It certainly doesn't have the power, reliability/serviceability, or fuel mileage to recommend it. So what does recommend it?

This is of particular interest to me, I've recently spent some time talking a friend out of buying an Allroad. It's just telling when the defenders of the car still have to point out that it has many thousands in repairs lurking that other cars will not need.

This thread turned into exactly what I thought it would I might go look at it anyway, since it sounds like non-broken ones are hard to come by.

There are two kinds of people in the world, those who buy VAG products because they would rather walk than drive anything else, and those who don't buy them because they don't want to walk everywhere. I think its great if anyone who really likes them puts the time and money into keeping one on the road, but once they have over 100k, if there is another choice of car that would work better, its probably a good idea.

A guy at work had an Allroad biturbo for about a year. $5K in turbos and ancillary parts, I don't remember how many thousands for the air suspension....I would say run....run far, far away.

There is a guy I knew in the Air Force who had a B5 S4, only saw it occasionally, I asked him if it was his weekend car or something because i'd see it like maybe 2 times every couple of weeks. It was a nice example so that was not an unreasonable assumption. He would always say it's not running or he's working on it. He later got a newer V8 S4. I saw that car daily.

I've just realized that it's the Maserati Bi-Turbo of the 00's

Id rather have a Biturbo, I think id prefer to work on an car that was obviously kinda thrown together without the budget to do it right than a car that the Germans spent millions of dollars to design to fall apart as soon as the warranty expires.

If a Chevy Spark had any one of the problems on that list people would say it was a reason GM should have gone out of business but in an expensive German car it becomes part of an exclusive ownership experience.

NONACK wrote: This thread turned into exactly what I thought it would I might go look at it anyway, since it sounds like non-broken ones are hard to come by.

Considering your history of breaking cars that aren't considered POS's, who knows.....maybe you're due to get a POS car and never have it break

Doc, is it just that it seems reliable after a Corrado?