Learn me: Buying used jet boats and skis

I bought a new Yamaha VX Cruiser last year after lots of research. Yamaha have far superior reliability vs Seadoo for all years since forever, but the used ones cost more because of it. They are also difficult to find used because they are so good, they don't stick around long.

Avoid Seadoo with superchargers. The SC needs rebuilding frequently, like every 50 hours and they consume fuel like mad.

You want a 3 seater ski because it is required to be able to tow things in many jurisdictions. You need a seat for the driver, spotter and person being towed.

We also have a 1993 Seadoo 2-stroke. As said they are not reliable. Ours was good for many years, but started to act up and they are not easy to repair. It has been out of the water for 2 years now. Le sigh.

Jet boats...the Seadoo ones likely have SC engines if they are fast and that often means twin SC motors. Imagine the maintenance, repairs and fuel of 2 jet skis running full out.

Reliability is important because you often only have the chance to use the things a few weeks a year and if it breaks there is a wait list to fix it and the window closes. Maybe next year...

Yamaha is the way to go.

Just revisiting this...

Shopping went sideways. Good Yamaha jetboats are pricey and not many on the market at my price point.

Good I/O boats are plentiful, reasonably priced and ... now this happened.

'98 Sea Ray 230 Signature. 5.7L Mercruiser. 480hrs. Freshwater only. Aluminum tandem trailer. Needs a serious polish/wax/buff detailing, and some minor repairs. The big stuff is all good. It purrs and pulls like a train. Waiting on a hull inspection and then I pay the man. All in, well under budget.

That's a fine lookin' hole in the water you got there.

never cared for I/Os. All the hassles of an inboard coupled with all the iffy parts of an outboard without any of the benefits of either. They also have a LOT of seals to keep the water out. From the big one around the outdrive unit to all the internal stuff to keep the water out and the oil in.

Well, one of the benefits is... It's just a car engine with a carb. Super simple to work on. All those seals are cheap and pretty easy to R&R by the look of it.

The other is that it's out of the way of ski ropes and people on the swim platform. You can tan on top of it like a boss.

Another is... Replacement cost is pennies compared to a good outboard. The drive is on every boat ever so junkyard replacements abound. I can already think of a few swap ideas I could see if things go wrong. I fully expect to fi & megasquirt my boat one day.

I'm new to boat owning (as opposed to borrowing :)) though so I'll probably change my opinion once I've learned a thing or two.

Huckleberry wrote: Well, one of the benefits is... It's just a car engine with a carb. Super simple to work on. All those seals are cheap and pretty easy to R&R by the look of it. The other is that it's out of the way of ski ropes and people on the swim platform. You can tan on top of it like a boss. Another is... Replacement cost is pennies compared to a good outboard. The drive is on every boat ever so junkyard replacements abound. I can already think of a few swap ideas I could see if things go wrong. I fully expect to fi & megasquirt my boat one day. I'm new to boat owning (as opposed to borrowing :)) though so I'll probably change my opinion once I've learned a thing or two.

be very careful of the "just a car engine" often times the marine versions of automotive type engines are different in ways you might never expect.

For one, expect "wet" exhaust manifolds. Coolant water (the raw water taken from outside the boat to either cool the engine through intercooling or just raw water through the engine) is injected into the exhaust at the manifolds to both get it overboard AND to keep the exhaust system cool.

Another is the carb, some boats might use updraft carbs (yes, they made such awful things).

And I think at one time mercury marine engines used thinner heads than the automotive equivalent. Be sure to check the length of the sparkplug before installing.

It's the little things that make boats so interesting, like trying to change oil on an inboard (or I/O) you will probably curse the person who designed how the engine sits as you try to figure out how to both reach the drain and decide how to collect the old oil. Most people use a pump to pull it out the dipstick tube for a reason.

mad_machine wrote: be very careful of the "just a car engine" often times the marine versions of automotive type engines are different in ways you might never expect. For one, expect "wet" exhaust manifolds. Coolant water (the raw water taken from outside the boat to either cool the engine through intercooling or just raw water through the engine) is injected into the exhaust at the manifolds to both get it overboard AND to keep the exhaust system cool. Another is the carb, some boats might use updraft carbs (yes, they made such awful things). And I think at one time mercury marine engines used thinner heads than the automotive equivalent. Be sure to check the length of the sparkplug before installing. It's the little things that make boats so interesting, like trying to change oil on an inboard (or I/O) you will probably curse the person who designed how the engine sits as you try to figure out how to both reach the drain and decide how to collect the old oil. Most people use a pump to pull it out the dipstick tube for a reason.

Oh, I know they have their peculiarities - but the packaging is super easy to work on vs outboard which are like entire BMW minis the way they are assembled.

This boat has a remote oil filter and an extension tube on the pan so you can put a rubber hose on the tube, open the petcock and flow the oil right out of the hull drain plug into a jug.

The carb is just a regular 2bbl with an anti-backfire lid. THe manifolds are raw water with a flush port on top that takes a normal hose so I assume you can run the boat in your driveway or flush fresh water if you put it in salt. THis one has never been in salt though and had good routine maintenance and winterization so I'm not too worried about corrosion and so forth.

The power steering ram that does the push/pull on the drive is leaking a bit - but it's right on top so I can pluck it out and see if the seals can be DIY'd or I need a new part. There are a few little things like that that work fine but need my attention so I will figure them out as I go. Part of the reason the price was good for me is the owner had a list the dealer gave him and it was a big number for not a lot of difficult work IMO.

THey had big $ to fix the speedo and ... I could see the end of the pitot tube clearly had snapped, was floating on the end of the line and just needed the plastic end part replaced. They banged the poor guy $1500 to do the bellows last year and I just watched the youtube on that... easy 2hr job with $150 in parts for anyone with some tools and the internet.

So - if the guy who buys used boats for the marina says there is no wood rot issue in the transom or stringers on Tuesday I'm going to run it for the rest of the season... which isn't long... then drag it home to do a bunch of R&R in the yard before getting it fogged and shrink wrapped.

Looks nice. Have fun with it.

I have had a pair of ('94 and '95) Polaris SL750s for a long time. It is impossible to frown while on one. They are more fun than both newer and bigger skis I have ridden. Super reliable, I put batteries in them every couple years. I take care of my stuff though. They still look almost new. They have never seen salt water, and get waxed with Pledge every evening after use. Skis are so nice to load and unload at the ramp compared to boats.

Edit: Looks like I failed at reading comprehension, you already bought a boat! Have fun with it!

pinchvalve wrote: My other option is a 14.5-foot Bayliner Capri. It is a really small open bow made in the 80's and has the advantage of being small enough to tow with my current fleet but still fit 4. Every so often, I see one that has been lovingly maintained and is in great shape. I just have to have some cash on hand to jump on one.

Last week I was driving along I85 and was passed by a car towing a small Bayliner. I was impressed how trim and clean it was. I know they aren't highly regarded, but I wouldn't rule one out without looking at it closely.

In reply to Huckleberry:

Sounds like you have a plan then. I can only wish you good luck and I hope you get to enjoy your boat more than the naysayers say you will

If there isn't any rot, that's a decent cruising boat. Personally I'd take a IO over a outboard any day of the week. Simple, cheap, easy to work on, and much more pleasant to listen to. I've had two Sea Rays with MerCruisers over the last 20 years and been pretty happy with both of them. For dollars spent, they are hard to beat.

Store it with the drive in the down position. That will help with keeping the bellows happy. If the PO just had them replaced, it shouldn't need it again for a bunch of years. I replace one set over 15 years of owning IOs.

Service on a fresh water MerCruiser is dead simple and they don't need much. Some fresh oil, lube the U-joints and gimbal bearing, and a water pump every couple of years. An hour or two every spring will do the trick. Make sure you pull the drain plugs on the block and manifolds when you put it up for the season. In your neck of the woods, they will freeze. There should be one on either side of the block under the manifold, as well as on the bottom of both manifolds.

Let me do some digging, I probably still have a service manual that I'll send to you.

I am more used to marine diesels than I am V8s. If the mercuiser uses rubber impellers for the waterpump, I would consider replacing the impellers every spring. Cheap and easy maintenance that will keep a day ruining waterpump failure from biting you on the arse

In reply to mad_machine:

It does, there is a raw water pump in the foot. I replaced mine every other year. It costs about $50 and is stupid simple to replace.

Toyman01 wrote: If there isn't any rot, that's a decent cruising boat

If you know these boats - I'm wigging out about hull rot because of one video sent to me by a guy on a SR owners forum of his troubles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kopF4muvF0c&list=PL02C318B574CD948D&index=1). I'm not sure what to make of this advice or how to put it in perspective in the grander scheme... and we all know how a small thing can become huge here on the internets (like BMW rear subframe tears). What sort of chances are there that I'm worried about nothing? It's going to a Sea Ray dealer on Tuesday for them to do a pre-purchase inspection. Good enough? I don't feel comfortable trying to poke a screwdriver through the glass covered wood parts of someone's boat so I'm reluctant to do this myself :)

Toyman01 wrote: Let me do some digging, I probably still have a service manual that I'll send to you.

Sweet! I downloaded the spec sheet from Sea Ray but I didn't see any sort of manuals. THat would be helpful.

The two best days of owning a boat are the day you buy and the day you sell.

Also, don't hurt your "Boating arm"

In reply to Huckleberry:

Rot can be a big deal. Sea Ray uses wood for stringers, floor, and transom. Unprotected penetrations of any of those surfaces can cause rot. It is particularly common on the floor around the seats, and the transom around the drive. Some bonehead screws something in place without any marine sealant, water gets in, rot starts. All of it is repairable, but doing so is a Project with a capitol P. BTDT. I do not recommend unless you are bored and want a particularly nasty project.

Best way to check for rot is a ball-peen hammer. Tap it everywhere. If the transom sounds like a sheetrock wall, walk away. It should sound solid and bounce like steel. If the floor sounds like a paneling wall, walk away. It will sound slightly hollow but still be solid. Stand on the drive and bounce with it trimmed up, any flex it the transom, walk. It should not move, at all. There should no flex in the floor as well. Walk it everywhere, including back near the transom and around the engine well. Take the hammer to the stringers and engine mounts. They should be very solid sounding and bounce like steel. The sides above the waterline will sound solid on older boats. Below the waterline should be very solid sounding.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Tn9t2UTYKBI

Being new to this, it's money well spent to have a pro check it out, but don't be scared to walk around it with him and ask questions. If he's not walking around it tapping on everything, ask him why. If he feeds you some line about it not working, find someone else.

IO installation requires a huge hole being cut into the transom. If the hole isn't sealed well, water intrudes and rot starts. It isn't a question of if it will happen, it's when. Also the exhaust risers in the exhaust manifolds rust out and let water into the cylinders. Unless you remove and inspect at regular intervals, this is almost guaranteed. Most boat owners never remove and inspect these. Your surveyor won't. As a long time owner of boats including my first which had 2 IO motors, an IO is never the answer for family boating. My current boat has 3 outboards. IOs are cheap and there are a ton of them for sale for a reason. They are built to a price and not made to last. Car motors were never designed to run at high RPMs for hours, Outboards are. You want to go 60, you will ring that motor within inches of its life.

In reply to Toyman01:

Thank you for the write up. I expect a dealer would know to check these things but I will make sure I'm present when they do so I can hound them with my neurotic questioning :)

In reply to maj75:

That's a rather sweeping statement, and directly opposite of my experience. I've put thousands of hours on IOs and outboards. For a cruiser, I'll still take an IO over a outboard. They are a little more maintenance than a outboard, but with a some TLC, they will last just as long. And not having to listen to a OB turning 4K, just to stay on a plane, is well worth the extra maintenance. I've done 100+ mile days in both. I much prefer the IO.

Freshwater use (where Huckleberry lives) negates the rust problem with manifolds and risers and a freshwater cooling kit negates manifold problems in saltwater as well. My last rig was freshwater cooled, running in saltwater and never needed manifolds, only risers every 4-5 years.

mccormick426 wrote: Yamaha. We have a 2015 AR210. Last week I towed it from Lexington, KY to Port Everglades, FL. Drove the boat to Bimini, filled the tank and then cruised to Grand Bahama for a week of snorkeling. I can't say enough good things about the 4 stroke Yamaha Jetboats, don't buy a Seadoo.

That sounds like an awesome trip.

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to Huckleberry: Rot can be a big deal. Sea Ray uses wood for stringers, floor, and transom.

You will also find it around the cleats on deck and probably anywhere else something solid is mounted, like handrails and windscreens. If it is a factory hole, it is probably plywood, if it is something somebody added, it's probably balsa.

replacing a rotted deck is not a big deal, it's a lot of work, it's nasty, and for a lot of people a deal breaker. If you know your way around 'glass, it's not hard to fix

In reply to Cotton:

It was truly awesome, minus 14 hours of driving. When people hear about it they either think I am foolhardy and reckless or they are miffed they didn't get invited.

Congrats on the Sea-Ray that's a fine looking vessel. Ensure you give it a proper name

Well... the hull inspection came back clean so I brought it home. Took it out to the lake over the weekend and it's all good so far except a few small things I'm going to poke at over the next couple weeks. It's a long list but all mostly niggling issues like missing cover snaps on the hull,  missing hood struts on the engine cover and ski locker, dings in the gel coat, shoddy accessory wiring for things I don't need (like a 13" subwoofer) that need to be cleaned up or removed.  Stuff like that.