Learn Me on 944's

I'm going to go look at a 1987 Porsche 944 (non turbo) car I saw on CL. Car is 2nd owner & has service history, 112,000 miles, T-belt & water pump have been done, pretty clean, non modded. Owner says no rust....

So what things should I pay particular attention too or look out for? My plans would be to make this into a autocross car & do some track days

Thanks for the help!

Of course there's no rust, they're galvanized. Check the battery tray (the acid will cause rust), make sure he actually has the service records (and that a real shop did the work, no Billy Joe Bob's 4x4), and check the ball joints.

There's a sticker in the rear hatch area under the carpet that gives all the option codes as well. You'll want 220 (Limited Slip Diff), and 030 (Adjustable Sport Suspension) or 456 (Non-adjustable Sport Suspension).

Ask if they have ever changed the rod bearings.

Check the oil make sure it is not doctored with STP

Start cold car and note oil pressure (should be 5 bar)

Bring car up to temp and this means the oil not the antifreeze. This takes 10-15 minutes at a minimum. Then with the motor good and warm note oil pressure. 5 bar is great but I would suspect STP treatment noted above 4 bar is really good. 3 bar is ok but you are getting to the lower end of acceptable. 2.5 bar or less and you are looking at rod bearings soon and I really would not track it. Less then 2 bar and don't track it till you get the bearings fixed. I would be leery about it as a DD as well. This is not a huge job really just takes some time and depending on the price not a deal beaker.

Inspect plugs at the speed and reference sensors if they are cracked falling apart it is $150 plus time and getting them out can be a PITA if they are frozen in the bracket. check rear hubs for play. This job while not expensive is one I just hate. Really not all that bad but.. . . . Well I just hate changing them.

Check steering rack for leaks or broken boots.

Check for leaks at the oil cooler housing

Check oil fill cap for white goo

Is the belly pan still on the car? Not a necessity but "at speed" the nose will get a bit floaty (this is really a track related issue as it only occurs over 80mph.)

Ask them when the clutch was last done. If it is the original then you are looking at $600 - $800 in parts and a two day repair job in the driveway. The original has a rubber center that will go and probably soon.

Does the odometer work? Has it been repaired? There is an issue with the gears in these things. This obviously leads to the question about actual millage if it has been fixed.

Check the ball joints they are aluminum A arm units that are a bit of a nuisance to replace. The complete A arm replacement (how Porsche does it is $$$$$) I think the kits to refer the a arms is less than $100 but there are several inferior ones out there shop carefully for these.

Look for cracked headers. Usually it is at the flange that bolts to the head but sometimes they crack at the Y's

Check 2nd gear. Get it warmed up and then try a fast 1-2 shift. If the sync-rows are going it will show up after the trans is warmed up.

Look at the seal at the top edge of the rear hatch and the glass. They separate here. Worst case is the glass will come out of the frame and result in the frame folding at the struts when you try to close the hatch. I have never seen this but I have seen many of these cars with the glass starting to separate. I usually force black silicon sealant under as much pressure as I can in between the glass and the frame and then let it set up. I have had good luck with this re bonding the glass to the frame. the fix is to remove the glass and re set it with new adhesive.

Look at the ground leads and the power leads that run down to the starter. These can chafe and short and since they are not fused I have seen a couple 944's that have burnt to the ground due to this. this is usually related to a previous motor swap and the wires getting caught or pinched in the motor removal / install process.

Check the headlights for smooth operation. If they hesitate it is probably either a bad ground or the contacts in the motor assembly need cleaning / adjusting to get better contact.

Ohya if you do a pre purchase inspection look at how the p[ads are waring uneven ware usually needs that the calipers are hanging up. these cars don't really have slides in the usual sense and they may need to be taken apart and cleaned and lubed. If this is not caught early it can result in issues with the calipers.

This is all I can think of off the top of my head that are specific to this car.

Listen for noises form the bearings in the torque tube. They have bearings that eventually fail

Shifter bushings both at the shift lever and back at the trans tend to ware out and things get sloppy

AND contrary to popular belief, they do rust. Galvanized or not, check it!

njansenv wrote: AND contrary to popular belief, they do rust. Galvanized or not, check it!

The only rust I've ever seen on a 944 (and keep in mind, I've been involved in pulling some hulks out of jungles thick enough to look like 'Nam) has been from either battery acid, or an improper crash repair. I've never seen rust on the actual, OE galvanized metal. Where do they rust?

Yeah, I have seen my fair share of junk 944 and I have never seen one with extensive rust. Even in wheel wells and rockers.

Is it a 944 or a 944S (twin cam)? Beware of the dreaded timing belt...Head work is expensive, because the parts are expensive. Some of the valves are pricey!

^ Are you guys in the rust belt? Obviously that makes a difference. I'll definitely concede that they are remarkably rust resistant...but not rust proof. I'm not saying I've seen many rotted out ones, but I've definitely seen rusty rockers and wheel wells.

http://944lux.blogspot.com/2009/10/rusty-sills.html

In reply to njansenv:

I'm from Florida and started with Porsche's down there, so yeah, I know rust.

My 924s sees winter use on a regular basis and so far little if any rust. Then again having a constant oil leak misting the undercarriage helps things. LOL

Thanks for all of the advice!!! Now I have a pretty good check list compiled before I head over to inspect the car.

Javelin wrote: In reply to njansenv: I'm from Florida and started with Porsche's down there, so yeah, I know rust.

Up here in the great north, we consider Florida cars to be rust-free....

Price?

I have bought 944 ranging from 11k to $330. Price factors big into the equation too as just about any issue can be fixed, but at what cost. Interior bits and paint are expensive to replace, but rebuilding a motor is actually cheaper than doing the interior.

So 112k is not that many miles, but a 4k car may still take 1k in parts make it solid. Much over 4k and that car better be show quality. Under 3k the car will need work. Just expect it.

Asking the same question? a couple 944s cars have popped up on the radar cheap near me..

So what about this 2nd gear problem? I have seen that frequently in the for sale ads.. What are we looking at for a halfway competent guy with a lift and full set of tools in the backyard shop?

Is this a huge deal if it is the only major problem an a otherwise nice car?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/porsche-944-profile/

GRM's buyer guide.

ronholm wrote: Asking the same question? a couple 944s cars have popped up on the radar cheap near me.. So what about this 2nd gear problem? I have seen that frequently in the for sale ads.. What are we looking at for a halfway competent guy with a lift and full set of tools in the backyard shop? Is this a huge deal if it is the only major problem an a otherwise nice car?

2nd gear problems are usually worn shifter bushings. I had mine fail and had to replace the whole handle. There's a nice write-up under my 944 in my Reader's Ride garage. Super easy to do and pretty cheap. My trans has 227,9xx miles on it and I bang shift 2nd like a drag racer (cause I am one) and have never had an issue.

Javelin wrote: Of course there's no rust, they're galvanized. Check the battery tray (the acid will cause rust), make sure he *actually* has the service records (and that a real shop did the work, no Billy Joe Bob's 4x4), and check the ball joints. There's a sticker in the rear hatch area under the carpet that gives all the option codes as well. You'll want 220 (Limited Slip Diff), and 030 (Adjustable Sport Suspension) or 456 (Non-adjustable Sport Suspension).

Using the wrong battery call damage the battery tray as well when you slam the hood shut and force the battery/tray down (and potentially damage your hood as well.

Transaxle on the 944s is the same basic Audi 5-speed used in the Audi's of the time (minus the rear output to the rear wheels used on the Quattro cars) the cases are prone to flex and the longer shifter/TT tends to make for a transaxle that is slower to shift than many drivers are used to. The result? They rush/force the shift and damage the syncro/gear. Luckily not too hard to fix if you don't mind transaxle work. Worn bushings in the linkage makes all of this happen much faster/more easily than it should.

I am going to look at this thing now.. Owner says syncro is gone... says it buzzes in warm, cold whatever...

So what kinda dollar amount am I looking at if it just needs a syncro?

What do the other "while I am in there" kinda things like Clutch and whatnot total up to?

130K car.. Supposed engine rebuild 20K something ago.. Turbo water pump..

911 cup wheels..

Clutches are expensive, but they are at the front, you can pull the trans without touching it. I still think it's just the shifter.

Hmm. These engines should last a bit longer than 110k unless they forgot to change the timing belt.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

That would be my guess.. the kid talked about head work.. but he didn't do it so he didn't know for sure.

It seemed to run strong enough..

It would buzz into 2nd unless you short shifted a VERY low RPM and spd.. like idling at 5mph.. The shifter was floppy and imprecise.

During the drive it felt good... then it didn't.. the back end started to feel weird.. upon returning to his place the Driver side rear wheel was loose.. he explained the axles had been replaced recently.. So I assume something was done incorrectly. Axle nut or something must be loose, I have no idea, I didn't hear any bearing noises..

The rear tires were displaying uneven wear due to excessive camber.

The interior had some wear and tear. Dash 'pad' was warped/buckled. Hood latch pull wasn't all together properly. But the seats were freshly recovered. and everything seemed to work.

It is wearing a decent looking repaint. with the exception of a bump on the passenger fender which showcased a bit of body filler.

I may check it out again in the daylight..

Asking price was 1900.

I'd offer about $1200 and pay maybe 1400 based on your descriptions.

I'm thinking it needs the shifter bushing (and possibly handle like mine did), a fluid flush/fill on the trans, and the axles checked out/re-torqued. I'd also want paperwork on the timing belt / head job. With 20K it needs the belt again.

In reply to Javelin:

How is that rear hub put together? Could it just be a loose axle nut causing the whole rear wheel to flop around? Certainly something back there must be hurt ... or at least hurt now?

It almost felt like the lug nuts were loose.. and I could shake the wheel by hand pretty independently of the suspension?

And he said it need an AC compressor?

I have no idea, I've never taken the rear of mine apart. Hopefully Brad or Swede has the answer there.

On the A/C, it's usually the control unit inside the car (mine broke, too). They are hideously expensive.