Putting pretty much any other manual car trans behind an LSx (besides an LS/T56) is going to involve a custom bellhousing/flywheel or some fabrication. Weighing that against the price of an appropriate T56 evens up the cost comparison quite a bit.
Putting pretty much any other manual car trans behind an LSx (besides an LS/T56) is going to involve a custom bellhousing/flywheel or some fabrication. Weighing that against the price of an appropriate T56 evens up the cost comparison quite a bit.
weedburner wrote: Putting pretty much any other manual car trans behind an LSx (besides an LS/T56) is going to involve a custom bellhousing/flywheel or some fabrication. Weighing that against the price of an appropriate T56 evens up the cost comparison quite a bit.
This isn't really true... old four speeds fit with very minor mods.
I have chickened out and my $2011 5.3l ls Challenge car is going to be a manual shifted automatic transmission.
I originally planned to do a 4speed in the E36 with the 302, but having 100-250 miles of interstate driving between events threw that idea out the window.
my research tells me that you can put any LS engine in front of any manual trans that can be put behind any other Chevy V8 by simply using a flywheel for a 99-03ish 6.0 2500HD truck ($75 or so anywhere) with a 5 speed and a pilot pushing from a 98-02 Camaro or Firebird with an LS1 and T56 (around $50 from GM as of a few months ago). the bellhousing bolts right up, you use whatever 11" clutch setup you want that's designed for a Chevy V8, and you can use whatever clutch fork/throwout bearing setup you want.
hooking up any GM auto transmission is just as complicated- an aftermarket flexplate and a spacer where the torque converter fits into the back of the crankshaft and you can hook up any automatic from a powerglide to a 4L80E.
GM really knows how to keep this stuff simple..
Gasoline wrote: I have chickened out and my $2011 5.3l ls Challenge car is going to be a manual shifted automatic transmission.
Whatcha putting the 5.3 into?
novaderrik wrote: my research tells me that you can put any LS engine in front of any manual trans that can be put behind any other Chevy V8 by simply using a flywheel for a 99-03ish 6.0 2500HD truck ($75 or so anywhere) with a 5 speed and a pilot pushing from a 98-02 Camaro or Firebird with an LS1 and T56 (around $50 from GM as of a few months ago). the bellhousing bolts right up, you use whatever 11" clutch setup you want that's designed for a Chevy V8, and you can use whatever clutch fork/throwout bearing setup you want. hooking up any GM auto transmission is just as complicated- an aftermarket flexplate and a spacer where the torque converter fits into the back of the crankshaft and you can hook up any automatic from a powerglide to a 4L80E. GM really knows how to keep this stuff simple..
Preach it, brother.
weedburner wrote: My "Hillbilly Clutch Slipper" might help a T5 live behind an LSx. Here's a couple pics of the one installed in my RX-7...
Nothing more than a $15 hydraulic screen door closer with a bit of all-thread added to it's shaft. Active point and release rate are adjustable from the driver's seat. My RX-7 on radials is getting 1.30 60' times using it, allows me to spray right out of the hole without a progressive controller. Here's a pic of my RX-7 early in the summer when it had a Saginaw 4 spd in it...
Um. I think I love you.
Note - not true for the C4 Corvette ZF 6-speed transmission. I believe the bellhousing is too tight for the below flywheel.
tuna55 wrote:novaderrik wrote: my research tells me that you can put any LS engine in front of any manual trans that can be put behind any other Chevy V8 by simply using a flywheel for a 99-03ish 6.0 2500HD truck ($75 or so anywhere) with a 5 speed and a pilot pushing from a 98-02 Camaro or Firebird with an LS1 and T56 (around $50 from GM as of a few months ago). the bellhousing bolts right up, you use whatever 11" clutch setup you want that's designed for a Chevy V8, and you can use whatever clutch fork/throwout bearing setup you want. hooking up any GM auto transmission is just as complicated- an aftermarket flexplate and a spacer where the torque converter fits into the back of the crankshaft and you can hook up any automatic from a powerglide to a 4L80E. GM really knows how to keep this stuff simple..Preach it, brother.
In reply to dyintorace:
1955 Morris Minor. 
If its going in a car, don't expect any of the truck transmissions to work without serious floorpan surgery and even more dragging.
NV3550/AX15 will fit OK but they don't take tons of abuse. The NV45 and 56 are huge, heavy, and tall.
T56 is the new T5. A WC T5 will take a bit more than a normal T5 but they command a pretty hefty price. Classic 4 speeds are a nice, reliable box.
Gasoline wrote: In reply to dyintorace: 1955 Morris Minor.
Nice!! Would love to see a build thread.
njansenv wrote: Note - not true for the C4 Corvette ZF 6-speed transmission. I believe the bellhousing is too tight for the below flywheel.tuna55 wrote:novaderrik wrote: my research tells me that you can put any LS engine in front of any manual trans that can be put behind any other Chevy V8 by simply using a flywheel for a 99-03ish 6.0 2500HD truck ($75 or so anywhere) with a 5 speed and a pilot pushing from a 98-02 Camaro or Firebird with an LS1 and T56 (around $50 from GM as of a few months ago). the bellhousing bolts right up, you use whatever 11" clutch setup you want that's designed for a Chevy V8, and you can use whatever clutch fork/throwout bearing setup you want. hooking up any GM auto transmission is just as complicated- an aftermarket flexplate and a spacer where the torque converter fits into the back of the crankshaft and you can hook up any automatic from a powerglide to a 4L80E. GM really knows how to keep this stuff simple..Preach it, brother.
that's what i love about the internet- someone always has to find the one exception to the rule... i'm sure someone out there has already figured out how to hook it up..
njansenv wrote: Note - not true for the C4 Corvette ZF 6-speed transmission. I believe the bellhousing is too tight for the below flywheel.tuna55 wrote:novaderrik wrote: my research tells me that you can put any LS engine in front of any manual trans that can be put behind any other Chevy V8 by simply using a flywheel for a 99-03ish 6.0 2500HD truck ($75 or so anywhere) with a 5 speed and a pilot pushing from a 98-02 Camaro or Firebird with an LS1 and T56 (around $50 from GM as of a few months ago). the bellhousing bolts right up, you use whatever 11" clutch setup you want that's designed for a Chevy V8, and you can use whatever clutch fork/throwout bearing setup you want. hooking up any GM auto transmission is just as complicated- an aftermarket flexplate and a spacer where the torque converter fits into the back of the crankshaft and you can hook up any automatic from a powerglide to a 4L80E. GM really knows how to keep this stuff simple..Preach it, brother.
There is always an exception. ZF 6-speeds are not very common either, easier to find T56s to use instead. There is a Lakewood bellhousing made just for putting older 4-speeds behind LS engines, but you can use the regular bellhousings so why pay for it?
This thread is relative to my interests. I'm doing the research now on converting my 79 firebird with 403/th350 to 5.3(or 6.0)/manual. I'm leaning toward the 4 speed bc it's much cheaper than any other option and it's also era specific to my car. Anyone accomplish this combo? Write up would be great.
weedburner wrote:pres589 wrote: There was an article in the magazine about gear ratios and four speed manual transmissions a while back, I don't remember what the title was though, the Richmond Super T-10 (I think) was used as an example. In a light car and a decently torquey engine like a 5.3, I bet a four speed would be a great compromise for racing and road use, like the A833 OD box.Not sure about the ratios in the OD 833, but IIRC, the OD Toploaders (RUG/SROD) had around a 3100rpm drop going from 1st to 2nd with a 7000 shift point. That much gearspread can take a lot of fun out of it.
The A-833OD has some serious spread as well. IIRC, it's essentially a "regular" 833 with the 3-4 shift fork flipped around so "3rd" is actually 4th (1:1) and "4th" is actually 3rd, which is a something like 0.7:1. Makes for a big reach on 2-3 and 3-4...basically the same ratios as a 3-speed with a steep overdrive 4th.
IIRC, the ones that came in trucks and vans had a cast-iron case, and the ones that came in cars were aluminum. Mopar lore says that they're not quite as tough as a regular 833, but I've never seen or heard any hard data or even anecdotal evidence to back that up.
That said, they're fairly easy to find (easier than a cast-iron A-833) because Chrysler put them in a ton of stuff in the late 70's. I've seen four-door and wagon Aspens and Volares with factory 318 4-bbl/A-833OD setups. I think the one I've got in my garage came out of a late-70's van.
Car Craft had a writeup on how to mate the various generations of trans and SBCs recently. Maybe a year ago?
Ah. Three years.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0810_engine_transmission_swap_gen_3/viewall.html
I wasn't calling you out, but I've known people to buy 6 speed C4's expecting the LS motor to bolt up. It doesn't, and making it work isn't trivial. No big deal...unless you buy a ZF trans expecting it to bolt up because someone on the internet erroneously said it could be done.
(The word "any" in this case infers "without exception")
novaderrik wrote: that's what i love about the internet- someone always has to find the one exception to the rule... i'm sure someone out there has already figured out how to hook it up..
novaderrik wrote: LS engine in front of any manual trans that can be put behind any other Chevy V8 by simply using a flywheel for a 99-03ish 6.0 2500HD truck
Why do the guys on the LS1 forums make such a huge fuss out of using anything but a T56 if it's so easy?
Is this the GRM spirit hard at work?
Or is Car Craft more correct than tuna?
Keith wrote: Or is Car Craft more correct than tuna?
Car Craft wrote: Given all this, the quickest way to adapt an early four- or five-speed manual trans to a Gen III/IV engine is to make up this 0.400-inch difference in crankshaft flange position. McLeod Clutches, which was recently purchased by B&M, has solved this problem with a 168-tooth flywheel that will bolt up to the Gen III/IV crankshaft and extends the flywheel face by exactly 0.400 inch. This places the clutch and pressure plate surface at the correct height so you can either bolt on a new clutch and pressure plate assembly or use a Gen I clutch and pressure plate assembly you already have. This custom McLeod flywheel is drilled to accept the traditional 11-inch Borg & Beck/diaphragm-style pressure plate bolt pattern using original 3/8-inch shouldered pressure plate bolts.
Sounds pretty easy to me!
How much you wanna bet the truck flywheel does the exact same thing? I'm willing to bet A LOT ;)
HiTempguy wrote: How much you wanna bet the truck flywheel does the exact same thing? I'm willing to bet A LOT ;)
that's exactly what the truck flywheel does.. i bet the "new, exciting, you can't do this swap without this part" McCleod flywheel is just a stock replacement part that they also sell thru one of their oem replacement brands..
my theory is that GM didn't want to engineer a new manual trans for a relatively low volume application like the 6.0 powered 2500 trucks, so they just made a flywheel to make the all new engine bolt up to the tried and true manual trans and clutch parts that they already had in the parts bin. then a few years later they came up with a new trans and got rid of the necessity to use a different flywheel than the other LS engines used.
I need help!!!! I currently swapped a 5.3 DBW motor into a 90 c1500 with he NV3500 transmission. Physically they mates perfectly and truck runs smooth just cannot for the life of ke figure out the clutch issue.i used the clutch from Autozone PN NU 31371-1(out of 2004 gm 4.8l truck) and the Sachs NFW 1050 flywheel. They seem to mate up with no issues I have replaced slave cylinder, master cylinder and hydraulic line that connects the as well as the throughout bearing with PN 614018(national bearings). I have bleed it the system by gravity bleeding then using pump through the slave cylinder and reverse bleed from master as well. Then went and did the two person pump and bleed for good measures. I have the pedal all the way down and it seems to bottom the throw out bearing fork against the back of the transmission housing before it releases the clutch. Do I need a different size trowout bearing or fork and pivot ball bolt or is it something I am missing. I have been beating my head against the wall trying to sort this thing out. Thanks for any help
My toyota r series adapter kit just cane in the mail yesterday. Gonna find out if the r150f can handle turbo lm7 power. I think the 31/10.50/15 bf all terrains will ease the load due to extremely limited traction and the weight will be pretty low (shooting for somewhere around 2800 wet) due to largely tube and fiberglass construction but we'll see. If she holds together, it's gonna be a hilarious daily.
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