McQueen's Jaguar XKSS / Mazda Miata / Factory Five / Flying Miata

On looks alone I'd go with a DBR1 over an XKSS, although DBR1 vs D-Type would be a much more fair comparison. That being said, I'm not sure I'd be entirely happy with the Miata based MEV/Exomotive DBR1 kit either. I understand why it (and most others like it) end up having to modify the styling the way they do, and they are still pretty good looking in their own right, but the proportions just don't sit quite right with me...Much like the difference between a D-Type and an XKSS.

Along the lines of the MEV/Exomotive DBR1 kit, Tribute Automotive makes their 'A352' kit that is basically an (also slightly disproportionate) XKSS sitting on a Spitfire/GT6.

Since you'll never get an appropriate sound for either of these without dropping a 6 cylinder in, for simplicity and accuracy with a Miata donor space frame, I would probably rather start with something that was already a 4-banger at heart too. Ideally in my mind, something like a Maserati 200S/200SI/250S or Ferrari 500 TRC. Interestingly Tribute Automotive also makes a Z3 based set of (again, slightly disproportionate) Maserati panels, among others as well.

Of course, when theory met reality, I ended up going with a basic (semi-DIY) set of panels for my Locost inspired (custom space frame) build that should hopefully end up looking substantially like this when it's done:

To get proportions right, you would have to run a tall tire. XKSS came with 6.50-16, so that's almost 30" tall. Part of the reason for those swoopy fenders had to be clearance for a tire that tall. I wonder how tall the top of the door is on an XKSS vs NA/NB Miatas.

I've seen Steve McQueen's XKSS in person at the Peterson. It is quite striking.

Keith Tanner wrote: I agree that the Exocet is not the correct starting point. Those big stylistic arched tubes just don't work. It wouldn't be that hard to do the frame. Use the body to get your constraints, and put a lot of the structure in the trans tunnel instead of the side rails. Wide and deep for the sills, which is probably what the XKSS did in the first place. You'll note the doors are only half height. Interestingly, neither the Exocet nor the Catfish use the tunnel structurally. I'll bet it would be a lot easier to build one out of a Spitfire or GT6, actually. You might be able to do that with a kit.

U guys are gettin off track with talk of Sounds, Sex, Spitfires and Suzukis....Miata, gentlemen, Miata.

Keith Tanner wrote: We are saying exactly that. As Sir Mix-A-Lot once said, "36-24-36? Only if she's 5'3". This would be a really interesting thing to build. Start with a body and make everything fit. The sound will be a challenge.

Wait, I thought he said it was a honda!?

re:Sound...

Is a J-swap close enough?

V6s don't sound like straight sixes.

Driven5 wrote: On looks alone I'd go with a DBR1 over an XKSS, although DBR1 vs D-Type would be a much more fair comparison. That being said, I'm not sure I'd be entirely happy with the Miata based Exomotive DBR1 kit either, even considering that they also offer an I6 option. I understand why it (and most others like it) end up having to modify the styling the way they do, but the proportions just don't sit quite right with me...Much like the difference between a D-Type and an XKSS. Along the lines of the Exomotive DBR1 kit, Tribute Automotive makes their 'A352' kit that is basically an (also slightly disproportionate) XKSS sitting on a Spitfire/GT6. Since you'll never get an appropriate sound for either of these without dropping a 6 cylinder in, for simplicity and accuracy with a Miata donor space frame, I would probably rather start with something that was already a 4-banger at heart too. Ideally in my mind, something like a Maserati 200S/200SI/250S or Ferrari 500 TRC. Interestingly Tribute Automotive also makes a Z3 based set of (again, slightly disproportionate) Maserati panels, among others as well. Of course, when theory met reality, I ended up going with a basic (semi-DIY) set of panels for my Locost inspired (custom space frame) build that should hopefully end up looking something like this when it's done:

There are "D" types and then there are "D" types. The 1954 version is also basically the "customer" or Production "D" type whereas the 1955 long nose is much more sexy than the 1956 with it's full width windscreen. Since the XKSS were simply customer "D" types that had been street-ified in appearance they are the least desirable car of ll.

Keith Tanner is probably staying up late tonight, in fact he's probably not going to get any sleep at all because hes thinking...."Ive got to come to work tomorrow with a proposal to make Superdork PLance1 as cool as this guy":

plance1 wrote: Miata, gentlemen, Miata.

This is The Answer you're looking for: http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=18426

If the Honda V6 isn't any taller that the Miata engine, it might not be a bad option, but then you've got just that much less Miata in it. It's at least capable of a closer sound, and is shorter in length. The Miata engine sits too far forward relative to the front wheels and the transmission is too long. While you can't do anything about the latter, a V6 could at least help some with the former.

Unless you've got authentically dimensioned body panels to start with, your best bet would probably be to extend the wheel base of the space frame to move the front wheels forward relative to the rest of everything else...Much like a Locost. This would be necessary to keep the styling (in addition to the width to length ratio) more proportional, in addition to actually maintaining reasonable amounts of legroom. Alternatively, I suppose you could try to move the drivetrain a foot or so further back in the chassis.

Driven5 wrote:

plance1 wrote: Miata, gentlemen, Miata.

This is The Answer you're looking for: http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=18426 If the Honda V6 isn't any taller that the Miata engine, it might not be a bad option, but then you've got just that much less Miata in it. It's at least capable of a closer sound, and is shorter in length. The Miata engine sits too far forward relative to the front wheels and the transmission is too long. While you can't do anything about the latter, a V6 could at least help some with the former. Unless you've got authentically dimensioned body panels to start with, your best bet would probably be to extend the wheel base of the space frame to move the front wheels forward relative to the rest of everything else...Much like a Locost. This would be necessary to keep the styling (in addition to the width to length ratio) more proportional, in addition to actually maintaining reasonable amounts of legroom.

Thanks for posting this, I clicked on your link and read your post but I'm not picking up what you putting down. As Steve McQueen would say, "you're twisting my melon man..."

I don't want a lotus. I don't have a Honda V6. I don't want one of those either. I don't think they sound anything like a Jaguar inline 6 so I'm not sure why you're proposing it but I will got back and reread what you wrote. Here's what I'm saying... getting the sound of anything to match a Jaguar inline 6 is not my salient point. Its looks. As that great philosopher, Billy Crystal, said many times when he channeled Fernando Lamas, "Its better to look good than to sound good." Or something like that. Bottom line is this. A body kit slapped on a miata won't get it done. But I believe a correctly designed frame, with the correct proportions, with a body designed to match the XKSS, using donor parts from a miata can't be impossible. Exocet is based on a similar idea (using Miata donor parts) and Factory Five has proved that recreating a past body with donor parts from a mustang is doable.

If you want it to use a Miata donor, that link is pretty much all the Miata you would probably need.

As sleepyhead brought up, the Honda V6 can be easily enough mated to the Miata transmission...The ability to create a more appropriate sound to coincide with the looks might not matter to you personally the way it might for some others in this thread, even if it can't physically be made to sound like an actual Jaaaag, but it could also provide some noted functional advantages towards the obstacles facing your "correct proportions" goals.

And you might not want a Lotus, but I would strongly suggest looking at how some of those have been built from a Miata single vehicle donor for inspiration on the frame and layout possibilities that might be able to achieve your "correct proportions" goals, even if not at a perfect 1:1 scale. Not that I would consider an unmodified 'book' frame to exactly be "correctly designed" either, but the general concept can be a very useful starting point even if draping other sexier bodywork over it...Sort of like in the picture I posted above. Otherwise, even with a space frame you'll run into many of the same fundamental packaging constraints as if it were on a stock Miata floorpan, much like the MEV/Exomotive DBR1 did.

So, stripped down to the basics, this is what you would be working with:

guzinta this:

Challenge I see is that the sills on the Jag roll way under the car. That means you are going to be peeling the A and B post off the Miata and getting rid of the last vestige of the sills as you cut way into the floor to make the Miata narrow enough to fit under the Jag body. You will be cutting the Miata firewall way down so say goodbye to all the nice pedal and steering bits. You are also going to be getting rid of the engine compartment side-structure from the Miata. That leaves you with a tunnel, somewhere to bolt seats (maybe) and a place to bolt the front and rear suspension. Not what I would call a solid structure. Besides, look at the size of the Miata tunnel; I bet that once you put that tunnel inside the Jag tub, there would be no space for seats.

What I learned for next time, besides wheelbase and track, is to measure from the front axle back to the middle of the seats. Then measure from the middle of the passenger to the middle of the driver seat and compare the numbers to the recipient chassis. They have to be close.

I Know this thread is really about Miatas but I read it thinking Jaguar. so one of those body's on My E R A 427Cobra frame with a V12,Looks, sound, Handling, got it all.It's for sale "cause I can't get a cobra body either" Lol.

South Park said: Doot N Doo Doo Pig and elephant DNA just won't splice

.

In reply to NOHOME:

The kit cars that start with a miata drivetrain start with this:

And built the frame and body around it.

You would have to be nuts to try and use the miata floorpan to mate it to another car...

For the sound, how about an RB20DE? Small inline 6, still cheap since everyone want's its' larger turbo cousins...

Straying off topic, but I used to build kayaks, and have had the hankering to do a lifesize version of one of these: Tell me that wouldn't be cool on a Miata! Especially with a blue windshield!

plance1 wrote:

I don't know how Keith could refuse Steve's request. I think Keith is now obligated....

fanfoy wrote: In reply to NOHOME: The kit cars that start with a miata drivetrain start with this: And built the frame and body around it. You would have to be nuts to try and use the miata floorpan to mate it to another car...

This guy gets it...

What adapter would be necessary to change a XJ6 engine to a manual?

Start here for all your 4.2 jaguar manual transmission needs.

stroker wrote:

What adapter would be necessary to change a XJ6 engine to a manual?

fanfoy wrote: Are you guys saying that this: is sexier than this? you guys are weird but I still like you

Close enough to the same thing that a guy who doesn't give a rats ass about British junk can't tell the difference, I'm afraid.

Keith Tanner wrote: V6s don't sound like straight sixes.

I wonder if they could with a really complex set of headers? Never really thought about it til just now...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: For the sound, how about an RB20DE? Small inline 6, still cheap since everyone want's its' larger turbo cousins...

What cars was that used in? I tried Wikipedia to no avail...