Modern pushrod big V8 into a Mustang, Not an LS1

Not cheap at the moment, but people are already dropping the 7.3l Godzilla into Mustangs- 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pysUCYz4wlM

FWIW, Brian Wolfe was a chief engineer at Ford, so he has TONS of contacts to do this work.  He makes some really good points about the engine and it's potential- it's been made public that the motor was designed to run at peak power with no enrichment so that owners will get considerably better gas mileage.  The structure is also very beefed up to last for many years.

It's going to be many years until this engine is commonly seen in the junk yards, but recalling Calvin's turbo GM that made LOTS of power- it will be interesting to eventually see this motor given the same treatment.

From everything I've read about this motor I'm not sure why people are dropping it in (other than "because its there.")  It was designed from the ground up to be a high torque-low HP motor.  I'd expect it to be more popular with rock crawlers and 4WD guys than car guys.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Because its a motor with big-block torque in the size of a small-block engine. It doesn't in the least matter what it was "built for"....all that really means is that it has a low-RPM cam and a truck intake manifold...change those things(possibly some valvesprings etc) and it will make far more power than its already significant numbers. Lets take the 351m engine as a perfect example: No single engine out there is more of a truck engine than that right?

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0702-ford-400m-engine-build/

That didn't stop the engine making great power when someone actually put a little effort into it....I would take a 7.3L in a heartbeat over an LS equivalent...torque is not a bad thing.....and you cant call a HP rating of 430HP from the factory low....a cam and intake would quickly swap those numbers from 430/475 to 475/450 in any case.

That being said, the engine is going to be too low-volume to ever get a following in the aftermarket unless they offer it in something more mainstream than industrial trucks

Does it have a common bellhousing pattern? How big externally compared to an LS? How does the torque curve compare to a 3.5? I was excited to see the boss 6.2 going into cars but this is way cooler. 

Mr_Asa said:

From everything I've read about this motor I'm not sure why people are dropping it in (other than "because its there.")  It was designed from the ground up to be a high torque-low HP motor.  I'd expect it to be more popular with rock crawlers and 4WD guys than car guys.

Wow, 430hp is low HP motor?  Who would have thought.

It's not as if it's a big effort to make is breathe a little better and spin a little faster, which increases top end power a LOT.  

buzzboy said:

Does it have a common bellhousing pattern? How big externally compared to an LS? How does the torque curve compare to a 3.5? I was excited to see the boss 6.2 going into cars but this is way cooler. 

listening to the video I posted, it's common with other Ford motors- as they put a Mustang 10 speed behind it.  Then again, the truck trans is also 10 speed, and could be the same thing (i honestly don't know, but I do know that the truck gets a 10 speed, too).

alfadriver said:

Not cheap at the moment, but people are already dropping the 7.3l Godzilla into Mustangs-

The 7.3 is in production vehicles yet?

There was a deep discussion on Speedtalk about this engine.  One of the early posts (about a month after the news broke) was something to the likes of "So how much power are people putting out with it on boost?"  Dude, the engine was just ANNOUNCED, it's not even in trucks yt.

The rest of it was people wondering why Ford made so many non-HP decisions while the sane rest of us pointed out that it's a truck engine, it was designed to live at WOT forever while using as little fuel as possible while staying clean enough.

One of my potential future cars is another '66 mustang. I was wanting to transplant a big block motor in it....but this would fit without having to graft in 67+ shock towers. Here is hoping that Ford sees some sense and drops it in the F150 at some point. Ford's choice of this engine for its industrial trucks is pretty telling though...it indicates that they are admitting was GM has known for decades...that pushrods are better for reliability while still making relevant power numbers.

I just watched the video....the most concerning thing about this swap is that they had to drop the steering rack 1.5"...meaning they will certainly run into bumpsteer issues and quite possibly ground clearance issues. Its a tall engine, but I think they dropped the rack to get the crank centerline down low enough not to have to cut the tunnel for the trans.

In reply to Knurled. :

Yes, 2020 Super Duty- you can go to the dealer and get one.  According to Ford.com, there are 18 of them within 20 miles of me.

And one also needs to keep in mind how this engine is certified on a dyno cert (real HD applications) to get a better understanding of why it's rated the way it's rated.

Wicked93gs said:

One of my potential future cars is another '66 mustang. I was wanting to transplant a big block motor in it....but this would fit without having to graft in 67+ shock towers. Here is hoping that Ford sees some sense and drops it in the F150 at some point. Ford's choice of this engine for its industrial trucks is pretty telling though...it indicates that they are admitting was GM has known for decades...that pushrods are better for reliability while still making relevant power numbers.

I really don't see this engine going into a F150.  Again, I don't know for sure.  But it would not make sense.

I don't see the attraction for swapping it into older lighter Ford cars or trucks.  One could just build a "big" small block from a 351 Windsor based block and a stroker crank.  If you use an aftermarket block with a 4 1/8 bore and tall deck you can build one over 450 CID.  A modern  engine with an integrated ECU is not that easy to get to run stand alone and I don't see Ford selling one for people to do engine swaps and if they do it won't be cheap. The one for the 3.5L Ecoboost goes for around $2K.

The 7.3L is a truck engine and for what it is, it does a good job.  

It will be interesting.  I laughed long and loud when I read the Ford press release, which could be easily interpreted as, "We made a horrible mistake in the mid nineties, and we finally got the budget to fix it."

alfadriver said:

In reply to Knurled. :

Yes, 2020 Super Duty- you can go to the dealer and get one.  According to Ford.com, there are 18 of them within 20 miles of me.

And one also needs to keep in mind how this engine is certified on a dyno cert (real HD applications) to get a better understanding of why it's rated the way it's rated.

B-b-b-but DOHC!  And turbodiesel!  And OMG LS COPY.  And and and and

I just re-read all twelve pages (if you Speedtalk, look for "Ford goes pushrod" and prepare to facepalm) and my head still hurts.

Disclaimer:  That is the same forum where people complain that GM didn't engineer a one year only engine with the SBC bottom end an LS heads, for reasons that can be boiled down to "I want performance heads I can get from the junkyard after someone else paid to engineer them."  There are a few of the ultra-whiners like that in the thread, they can be identified on sight)

In reply to jimbbski :

The rather nasty reply to your position is those comments would cover everyone's projects.

In reply to Knurled. :

I was really wondering what was going on when I first heard about the engine a few years ago, but then the dyno cert process was explained to me and then it all made sense.

For other posters and comments- WRT the "mistake in the 90's" idea, there's a lot of that goes on in huge corporations.  It wasn't a "mistake" it was an ego.  But that is for an entirely different thread.  The fact that the Mustang still has a DOH V8 as an option is one reason this engine will not go into the F150.

jimbbski said:

I don't see the attraction for swapping it into older lighter Ford cars or trucks.  One could just build a "big" small block from a 351 Windsor based block and a stroker crank.  If you use an aftermarket block with a 4 1/8 bore and tall deck you can build one over 450 CID.  A modern  engine with an integrated ECU is not that easy to get to run stand alone and I don't see Ford selling one for people to do engine swaps and if they do it won't be cheap. The one for the 3.5L Ecoboost goes for around $2K.

The 7.3L is a truck engine and for what it is, it does a good job.  

While it will take some time for this to show up as an option, do you really think you can modify an iron block engine that hasn't been made for over 20 years to be the same displacement as a modern, in production block for less money?  Let alone you end up with a heavier iron block in the end.

Forgive me for thinking that a production motor will be cheaper than that much modification to an old block.

And a small volume after market block vs. a production block?  For sure, I don't see the math to that. 

Also, while I am very interested in how Mr Wolfe is controlling his Mustang, this new engine can be run with MS if you swap the ETC to mechanical.  There's nothing special in it- the big one- it does not have direct injection.  

I actaully forgot this engine was coming out, which to be honest is *kind* of what Ford wants- it's a work engine first, and it's design and role is sharpening Pushrod V8s as much as possible for towing and torque. With it going in work trucks, honestly I don't think it'll be long before they start to show up in wreckers- can't wait to see it in replacing a 460ci.

Knurled. said:

I just re-read all twelve pages (if you Speedtalk, look for "Ford goes pushrod" and prepare to facepalm) and my head still hurts.

 

Disclaimer:  That is the same forum where people complain that GM didn't engineer a one year only engine with the SBC bottom end an LS heads, for reasons that can be boiled down to "I want performance heads I can get from the junkyard after someone else paid to engineer them."  There are a few of the ultra-whiners like that in the thread, they can be identified on sight)

I found that thread.

It hurts.

Why are we asking "why" on GRM? This is GRM. We should be asking "why not" which, okay, right now the answer to that is "it's not available yet and it won't be available cheaply for a while" but still, big-displacement V8 with 430 stock horsepower, what's not to like?

I predict someone will have a build thread about swapping this into the back of their half-Fiat half-Fiero hybrid tubeframe concoction within 6 months.

In reply to alfadriver :

Looks like they've boosted the HP numbers since last I read about this thing, but considering what other 7+ liter engines are doing I'll stand with my statement. 

Also, it isnt just about breathing better, they designed it from scratch to do this.  Port sizes, stroke ratio, everything is designed to put out huge amounts of torque. 

Sure, they'll start putting out parts to change those characteristics, but for now it's a truck engine doing what a truck engine does best. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

It's a truck engine that can quickly make almost 600hp -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML4SlsScnBY (about 9:00 they start talking about it- mild cam increase, some porting, and a new intake).  The work didn't raise the engine speed- but that can be done, too.

I'm sure Brian will find a way to make a TON more out of it, too.  

BTW, all of the structural items you address about being designed from scratch just means that when you give up some compromises, you can make more power.  Block, crank, oiling, etc- are all made to last 200k miles working hard- so then it is just about airflow to make more power.  

Seems like a really cool hot rod/muscle car engine, where the cool factor is more important than what the block is made of and how much it weighs. Especially if someone makes a decent looking intake manifold to replace the plastic one.

I'm considering swapping one of these into my '92 Bronco when they start to show up as drop outs.

I've penciled out the 351W stroker route... most of the available parts are geared towards drag racers, and big HP numbers, not big torque and efficiency.  And it's expensive... most of the stuff (GT40 parts, etc.) that used to be cheap and common is now expensive and rare.

I'm also looking at LS swaps, but the 7.3 would allow me to keep it all Ford.

I'm just glad there's more choices than "LS the world" now. I freaking hate fads. Remember when it was "sr20 all the things"? How about RB swap the world? Then 2jz? Then 1jz? Then 1.5jz?
 

Then everything got compared to a Hotrod article where they put Chinese turbos on a junkyard engine and made four figures. And suddenly everyone quoted that as "the absolute hammer on the nail". 

That junkyard engine didn't live long and won't, unless you drop 10k into the engine and turbo setup. Plan another 5-10k on that Ls engine into any car. 

Why do we do this to ourselves and fight amongst us about power output? A 200hp cramit is still fun. A 100hp Miata is fun. Let's just have fun, And thumbs up all the positive posts.  

It will be out of my budget for a long time but I've been following along on any information put out about the new 7.3 it would be fantastic in my zephyr but cost a lot more then a 351w 

It looks like for $6922 you can order up a new 7.3 from Ford https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/engine/new-gas-engines

I started with the assumption some dumb berkeley is going to drive a truck into a ditch and hydro  lock the engine