NC Miata vs DC2 Integra GSR on track? With a side of RX-8... SCCA Time Trials Sport 6 car to have?

It looks like the SCCA is going to mix up their Time Trials classes next year, with the largest class moves seeming to be in the Sport classes. Previously the FR-S/BRZ dominated Sport 6. It looks like they'll be moving the Twins up to Sport 5 next year. Curiously, they're also brining the RX-8 down from Sport 5 to Sport 6... 

With the Twins packing up shop, I'm thinking about getting back into SCCA TT. My first thought was to either pick up another NC or try my hand at RX-8 rotary things. When I looked at the other cars on the list, I noticed the DC2 Integra GSR in also in Sport 6. I just so happen to have a clean DC2 GSR. I'm assuming the DC2 likely won't keep up with the Mazda siblings on track, given equal levels of mild prep? Or am I mistaken? Would it even be competitive? 

If I was just buying a car for a class, I would just pick up one of the Mazda's. If I decided to run my Integra, it would have a few things going for it: 

-All preventative and track maintenance is already done. 

-No leaks, everything needing to be replaced has already been replaced by me. 

-I've done all the cooling/reliability mods to the Integra, it's been reliable on track thus far (mostly just open lapping days). 

-I already have a lower seat in the Integra and know that I fit on track with a helmet (I'm 6'2"- I ended up having to bolt the seat directly to a bracket to fit with a helmet- no seat rails). 

-It can carry a set of wheels/tires in the trunk without an issue. 

-Hardtop/coupe= no need for a roll bar if not desired. Better aero than the NC. 

-It's paid for already. Additional capital needed to run is minimal to say the least. 

Of course there are a long list of cons: it's FWD, open front diff, I can't adjust camber/caster in Sport 6 (no aftermarket camber adjustment allowed, whereas NC & RX-8 have factory camber/caster adjustment), it's heavier than the NC, can't fit at much tire under the fenders without a roll (class limited to 225's, it might be close on the 15x8's I have), it's an older car, the B18C1 is getting harder to find as time goes on, less torque than the NC/RX-8, etc. 

A lot of that stuff is bench racing. Anyone with real world experience in both cars? How close are they on track with basic bolt-ons (class is essentially limited to 225 wide 200tw tires, intake/exhaust, commonly found springs and shocks- no coilovers and commonly found bladed sway bars- no splined bars, no extra camber mods). Locally, I don't think it will matter much, but I'm curious how much potential time I would be leaving on the table? 

Any insights or experiences with both platforms? 

Thank you!  

Watching with interest. I'll be getting a new DD in the spring and looking at the options to do something with my DC2 4 door. Can't provide insight as it hasn't gotten any track time yet. 

I think your analysis of the various platforms are pretty on-point, so I'm not going to make too many comments there, other than to say what you seem to perceive is correct in my experience.

With regards to classing and competitiveness within classes, I can provide a little bit of input as someone who may or may not be involved with the TT classing committee, if such a thing even exists, which it probably doesn't. One of the things this body—should it indeed be real, which it isn't—considers frequently is  what pathway gives the largest number of people the best shot at being competitive and having a good time. As such, when it comes down to hairsplitting, the favor of any decision will generally be biased toward a car that is more readily available, more popular, has better aftermarket support, etc. It's very much a "fish where the fish are biting" approach.

We never had this conversation.

That makes sense JG. Promoting a younger platform is always better than creating a potential over dog with a relative unicorn.

At this point the DC2 is a relative unicorn to find one that is still in good shape to go run a ton at the track. Even the B series engines are not a dime a dozen like it seemed for years.  Where as the Miata is still a dime a dozen and is a lot of fun on track. 

JG Pasterjak said:

I think your analysis of the various platforms are pretty on-point, so I'm not going to make too many comments there, other than to say what you seem to perceive is correct in my experience.

With regards to classing and competitiveness within classes, I can provide a little bit of input as someone who may or may not be involved with the TT classing committee, if such a thing even exists, which it probably doesn't. One of the things this body—should it indeed be real, which it isn't—considers frequently is  what pathway gives the largest number of people the best shot at being competitive and having a good time. As such, when it comes down to hairsplitting, the favor of any decision will generally be biased toward a car that is more readily available, more popular, has better aftermarket support, etc. It's very much a "fish where the fish are biting" approach.

We never had this conversation.

JG, I'm picking up what you're not putting down, loud and clear. Although as soon as I read it, it's like this conversation completely disappeared from my memory. 

That's about what I figured. I noticed that this alleged committee bumped the S2000 up from S5 (where is seemed fairly competitive) into S4, where I don't think it's the car to have (my money is on the new 2022+ BRZ/GR86 or 350Z/370Z in S4). As the owner of a well-kept AP2, I can't say I disagree with the move- S2000's are moving closer and closer towards becoming collector's cars, not a lot of people want to risk their investments on a racetrack. Makes sense to nerf them a bit, so to speak, to avoid making the "car to have" a car that is getting tougher and tougher to find at a reasonable price. 

Oh the irony. Right before that announcement was made in FasTrack, I had an NC2 that I purchased for a song, that I sold right before the announcement. I would've built it for S6 in a heartbeat, had I known. 

Unfortunately, while I enjoyed driving my NC2, I never tracked it. With equal prep, I was just curious what kind of lap time differences are to be found between the NC and the DC2? My NC2 felt faster than my DC2, but Miata's always feel faster than they actually are, so it's tough to tell... 

If this conversation actually happened, while a Honda fanboi, I'd also wonder where you'd find a good GS-R. But since you already have one, what a chassis for track.

On my wishbone Hondas, I did the usual: coil-overs, bigger rear bar. I upgraded the lower arms on one of the '88 CRXs but that was to help with shock availability. 

I ran 205/50R15 because that was the norm then, too. 

David S. Wallens said:

If this conversation actually happened, while a Honda fanboi, I'd also wonder where you'd find a good GS-R. But since you already have one, what a chassis for track.

On my wishbone Hondas, I did the usual: coil-overs, bigger rear bar. I upgraded the lower arms on one of the '88 CRXs but that was to help with shock availability. 

I ran 205/50R15 because that was the norm then, too. 

I think we're both in the Honda fanboi club, brother! I used to have a 1988 CRX Si that I ran in SCCA TT Tuner 5 and STS for a while. Lessons were learned in that car! I remember bolting an aluminum Kirkey to the floor to clear with a helmet. I was running fairly high spring rates for the fairly rough tracks out here (13k/9k IIRC), which, along with the splined rear ASR bar I was running, made that thing a tail happy little car! It was fun, but a handful to say the least. If I remember correctly, swapping out the rear lower arms was legal due to superceded part numbers... I ran with the OEM rear lower control arms (same as the ITR if I'm not mistaken), but you're right, it limited the coilovers/shocks I could run. I ended up with a set of Redshift coilovers (revalved BC's), which fortunately, come in both fork and eye style rears. 

Based on my time behind the wheel in the CRX and Integra, the Integra feels a good bit more planted and the ABS is appreciated- my clumsy right foot locked up the brakes on the CRX more times than I care to admit! 

Ironically, I sold my CRX and picked up my GS-R shortly thereafter. The GS-R was bone stock, other than a Comptech header (with a CARB legal stamp on it) and rust-free. Original owner had held onto it for 20+ years and took good care of it. I almost felt bad about tracking it, but that hasn't stopped me thus far. 

The wife and I currently have 3 Honda's in the stable (DC2 GS-R, EK hatch and AP2 S2000). Apparently these cars just follow me home sometimes. I remember reading If You Give a Mouse a Cookie when I was a kid; these days, I've been equating that to If You Fill a Wishbone Honda with Gas. 

Yeah, due to the longer wheelbase, I'd expect the Integra to feel more stable than a Civic or CRX. (I never had an Integra, only Civics and CRXs.)

Share pics. 

David S. Wallens said:

Yeah, due to the longer wheelbase, I'd expect the Integra to feel more stable than a Civic or CRX. (I never had an Integra, only Civics and CRXs.)

Share pics. 

Admittedly, I don't take as many pictures as I should. My CRX in the garage, next to the S2000: 

The Integra shortly after I brought her home, again, next to the S2000: 

Pay no attention to the Challenger Scat Pack, ironically, it's actually my wife's car haha. The EK sleeps outside. She's in the background, behind the S2000 and my former CRX: 

I've gone through quite a few cars in my life (I think I'm somewhere around ~35 or so), but no matter what happens, the S2000 always seems to stay in the garage.