need some shop rennovation guidance. i have vapor lock of the brain.

so I've been looking at the build threads on garage journal to get ideas. my shop is in desperate need of a complete overhaul. so, due to the large number of options that I'm seeing there, I'm kind of getting vapor lock of the brain.

I guess what I should do is outline what my shop is used for. first, it is used to store up to two cars. secondly, one of those bays always has to have the 70 duster parked in it at night. the other bay is primarily used to maintain, repair, and build various cars. I also restore vintage power tools. and make furniture. the shop is 27 wide by 17.5 deep. 12 foot ceilings, with the master bedroom and master bath right above. two 8 foot wide by 7 foot tall doors. concrete block basement with doors, pretty much. walls are filled with cement and rebar.

currently, I have 7 four foot fluorescent fixtures over the work bay, 2 in the storage bay. the walls are done old fashioned whitewash (limestone/salt/water). outlets are limited to 4 total. do have hot/cold running water and a sink.

I'm on a budget, but need to maximize space/versatility/lighting. currently its 10 pounds of crap in a five pound bag. the space is not being utilized properly. it is not well lit. it is not really cleanable. it is cold/hot depending on time of year. I have a slight moisture problem, but the dehumidifier keeps up pretty well, I only have to empty it every few days to a week.

so ill post recent pictures of what I have going on now to give you a better idea of where I'm starting.

[B]outside[/B]/entrance:

[URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/031_zpsd8ec6171.jpg.html][/URL]

[B]left hand [/B]wall/woodworking/duster storage:

[URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/030_zpsb71480c5.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/026_zpsef5b0442.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/025_zpscf47ac05.jpg.html][/URL]

[B]back wall /B, has access door to cold storage (6 foot tall crawl space under the house to the right and up high ion the wall from this picture): [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/024_zps94173afb.jpg.html][/URL]

[B]front wall [/B]between the doors: [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/029_zps5fe1f0fd.jpg.html][/URL]

[B]right hand wall /B [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/022_zps39961cb0.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/028_zps03636e48.jpg.html][/URL] [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/027_zps60e08d5e.jpg.html][/URL]

the only real additions from these pictures are a 50's era craftsman table saw that I inherited, and a floor standing drill press. oh, and a bunch more crap and supplies that need to find homes. some of those homes are in the cars that they're for....

so my basic plans are to take the shelves on the left hand side down, burn them, and build a bench for woodworking. this bench would have a ton of drawers, and if I have the space a hole to slide my table saw in to store it out of the way. above this will be the biggest set of sliding door cabinets I can fit. pegboard between the two for various crap hanging. back wall will receive higher located storage shelves, mount my compressor up on the wall, and maybe a bench between the two bays where I can store my grinder when not in use. may even be able to build my drill press into the bench that I want, so I can minimize floor space impact. that's my biggest challenge, floor space. on the right hand side, ill build a new steel topped bench with drawers and cabinets, as well as jumbo oversized wall cabinets above. the shop sink needs redone badly, and id like to put the de-humidifier on the wall above it with a constant drain so I don't have to empty it every few days. I also thought about doing some lofts above the doors to store turning blanks, lumber/etc.

really, im grasping for ideas. don't know if I should redo the walls, what to do about the ceiling, what to do about the floor, what to do about electrical. really, I need someone to help guide me through the design process. the actual work I can do, assuming I can afford it. I just cant seem to get my head wrapped around where to start and how to proceed.

shelving/cabinets mounted on the walls are your friends....

here I built the shelving to fit back to the wall, around the studs. This gave me some added room without infringing on the overall space. Also the top shelf is much deeper since it is well above the working area

That picture of the duster with the hood up and the bandsaw in it is as far as I made it last time. The cabinet you see above the saw goes the whole way to the ceiling.

The answer is Miata.

Less car=more garage.

The first thing that comes to mind is to seal off the space under the deck and be able to use that for whatever. More sqare footage = more happiness. You should be able to do that reasonably inexpensively. Looks like there'd be enough space to place another floor under the deck as well, even if all you did was use it for storage.

Lift. ..... Or two.

You have 12 foot ceilings. Don't waste them. Store the duster up there. Park whatever under it. Have whole other side for work.

in this case, Miata is NOT the answer. ive had the duster for 20 years, it aint going anywhere. so its a given size constraint.

I had actually thought about expanding the deck and creating a carport at the same time. wife denied that pretty adamantly.

lifts would rock. no budget for that. also, all the plumbing/hvac/etc sticking down through reduce the effective height of the ceiling. so more realisticly ive got 10 foot or so, at the lowest point.

In thinking, and staring downstairs for the last couple of hours (snow day), I think I need to make a few basic decisions before proceeding. its effectively a wide open box. once the box is complete, filling it wont be difficult. then its just playing tetris with plywood.

so, to narrow down the vapor lock, I need to start with the box.

1. what can I/should I do with the walls, and why?

2. what can I/should I do with the ceiling, and why?

3. what can I/should I do with the floor, and why?

most important things, in order: light, cost, ease of maintenance, appearance.

itsarebuild wrote: Lift. ..... Or two. You have 12 foot ceilings. Don't waste them. Store the duster up there. Park whatever under it. Have whole other side for work.

^^ That would be my first step. Wish I had 12' ceilings, then I wouldn't have to rent a garage to store my Focus. One four post lift would open up things greatly. Two would be even better.

I'm gonna buck against conventional wisdom.

More shelving does not make more happiness, or even more space, or better organization. It ONLY makes it possible to stuff in more crap.

I have a 30x40 shop with 18' ceilings with a lift plus a 600 SF loft. Trust me, I know what I am talking about.

I also do both woodworking and cars, so I know a little about what you are dealing with.

The BEST organization systems are those that accommodate the actual activity at hand, and nothing more.

So, for example, ALL of my drill accessories are in a cabinet over the drill press. Nothing more.

My molder is on wheels, and has a small cabinet attached with its knives and accessories, nothing more.

Less stuff better organized and easy to find almost always means more happiness.

In your case, and there is an idea I would consider.

Woodworking and cars don't get along. But you have an advantage- you do wood turning, which rarely includes big pieces.

So, how about taking advantage of the high ceilings by building a loft at one end that the nose of the cars will fit under, then moving your woodworking to the loft?

Then dedicate the floor to cars only, except for a rolling table saw which can be moved outside for ripping long stock.

That way, when you are hunting for a plane or a set of trammel points or a turning gouge, they are not buried under the sockets and air tools.

Second advantage- most of your woodworking would then be standing on a wood floor instead of cold concrete.

Disadvantage would be dust- you might need to keep the cars under covers. Perhaps you would want to add dust collection to your future wish list.

Before you can store the stuff effectively, you need to separate the activities in your mind and define what is needed for each of them. Then, begin creating spaces that work for the specific activities.

Your garage is about the same size as mine. You need to think footprint- how you can reduce the footprint of everything in your shop. I love peg board or slat wall. Hang up your frequently used tools, don't throw them in drawers or cabinets. Magnetic tool strips are also great. I'd start by looking up- do you have any pics of your ceiling? Think of ways to add storage above. Shelves, hooks, whatever. The area above your garage doors looks like wasted space. If you have 12' ceilings and 8' garage doors, you could build a storage area- loft above the door tracks. Maybe even add a pull down staircase or ladder in the middle to make it easily accessible. My shop also share time between cars and home projects- woodworking. In a corner next to my workbench, I built a rack to hold my woodworking tools when not in use. Think of a heavy duty bookcase- but the tools are attached to the shelves, which slide out and are removeable. Stored on the bottom is a base that the tool shelves drop onto and are secured with pins. I have my table saw, mitre saw, belt and disc sander, and router table stored this way, in one neat stack. I have pegboard on the side that holds all of the blades, changing tools, etc.

No question I completely agree about using the third dimension (up).

I am not, however, a big fan of a storage loft over the garage doors.

I have one.

The problem is that it is a large volume with a low ceiling. That means it lends itself to bulk, and is not easily accessible once full. It becomes a crap storage area.

If you consider the same space with the idea I suggested of a working loft, it would be an excellent place to store wood for the woodworking projects. It could be reached from the working loft, and built like a lumber rack- not a volume space, but a small long items space. The pieces would be in easy reach when needed.

Crap storage spaces are bad. They are nothing but fire hazards.

Material in-use organizational spaces are good.

Moisture problem: Mount dehumidifier on a shelf above the sink and it will drain itself. Work on gutters and drainage to make the whole house less damp.

You have a 6' tall crawl space accessible from the garage? Fix your moisture issues and get stuff you are storing in there to store it and out of your work space.

How often does the Duster get driven, especially in the winter? If it's parked for months at a time consider storage somewhere else. $75 a month will let you lock it up and not worry about dropping something on it.

After swapping out my outdoor lighting for LEDs last fall I'm completely a fan. Several places sell 4' tube LEDs that pop right into your fluorescent housings. I'll be building a new shop here in a couple of months and that's what I'm going to use from the get go.

What sticks out to me are the large white spaces on the walls. That is your obvious space. You probably need to stare at it and drink some coffee. It always works for me.

Other than that, I'd try to arrange things by use. Can you build/modify a single cabinet to hold your woodworking stuff? This thread on GJ has some really interesting ideas about how to shove 10 lbs of crap into a 5 lb box. lilscorpions organization thread

Dusterbd13 wrote: so I've been looking at the build threads..... [URL=http://s54.photobucket.com/user/dusterbd13/media/027_zps60e08d5e.jpg.html][/URL]

Also, it should be comically easy to extend all of these boxes laterally. If the box has side punchouts, use them and run an outlet 3-4 feet in each direction. If not, buy boxes that do, a bit of conduit, and get cracking. Four outlets turn to 12, just like that.
There is also talk on GJ about using PEX for plumbed air. No, it's not rated for air, but yes, it works and it's super easy to install. This will let you park your compressor out of the way and have drops wherever you want them.

I agree with not going overboard on shelving. You'll use it as an excuse to horde more stuff that will sit there for eternity. Having less storage space will both prevent you from having a cluttered shop and free up the funds you'd normally spend on filling those shelves for other things. Like a lift

On storing the duster somewhere else, nope. The last couple of years has been the first time since high school that its beenhome with me, and i don't want to give that up.

Outlets: what's the downside to extending them like you describe? All 4 are currently wired to the same 15 amp breaker. Any other considerations before I do this? Cause that could happen this weekend.

I do need to work on drainage. Any good educational resources for this?

And the white space on the walls have been being stared at with coffee, which is how I came up with my current plan.

Air I had planned for a single 50 foot retractable ceiling mounted reel, centrally located. Any reason for more drops?

Thanks for all the encouragement to get rid of useless crap. I need to do this. Both in storage, in the shed, and in the shop.

I think I have found what I want to do for finishing the ceiling. White corrugated roof metal. Seems like it would be the cheapest and easiest way to finish it. Any reason not to do it?

Please, let's keep the discussion going.

On woodworking, I am primarily a wood turner, but also enjoy making furniture. All the woodworking stuff that I have that isn't big tools could fit in the shed and the woodworking bench. I will design to that idea, as I really like the idea of keeping tasks together.

Lots of wasted wall space. Some prefer shelves, others prefer cabinets, some prefer pegboard or slap wall, others just hang things on the wall. What works for one doesn't work for all. Organization is key, get the tools laid out where they can be used and store the parts in separate areas so you aren't tripping over them to use a tool.

mazdeuce wrote: This thread on GJ has some really interesting ideas about how to shove 10 lbs of crap into a 5 lb box. lilscorpions organization thread

I don't even have enough time to READ that thread, no less build all that crap!

Very impressive.

I particularly like his french cleat system. I have been arguing against pegboard for years, and he has taken that idea to the next level with the french cleat solution- FAAR better.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Outlets: what's the downside to extending them like you describe? All 4 are currently wired to the same 15 amp breaker. Any other considerations before I do this? Cause that could happen this weekend.

The ONLY issue is how much you will load the circuits. If your shop is a 1 man shop, you will not overload, because you will not run more than 1 tool at a time. My shop has 2 wall outlet circuits, with tons of outlets. I alternated the outlets on the circuits, so I have both circuit A and B all around the shop.

The retractable air drop is an excellent idea. I have 3.

2 drops may work better. If you only have 1, you will continually be dragging the hose over/ under the car when you are working on the opposite end.

Keeping tasks together is going to be your most important concept.

I do a lot of different things, and need to be mobile. Therefore, it has led me to putting together "kits" and trade specific tool boxes.

So, when I have some electrical to do, I grab the electrical box. Time for plumbing or masonry, same thing.

Sometimes, this leads to duplication of tools. I have a tape measure in virtually every trade box, because I use them for each trade. I don't want to get to an electrical job and realize my tape measure is right where it belongs on the little shelf in my shop.

i like the trade box idea. may do the ame thing with drawer/cabinet, since most of my stuff is done in the shop and not mobile.

and I will get pictures of the ceiling. hopefully tonight if I find the time.

SVreX wrote:

Dusterbd13 wrote: Outlets: what's the downside to extending them like you describe? All 4 are currently wired to the same 15 amp breaker. Any other considerations before I do this? Cause that could happen this weekend.

The ONLY issue is how much you will load the circuits. If your shop is a 1 man shop, you will not overload, because you will not run more than 1 tool at a time. My shop has 2 wall outlet circuits, with tons of outlets. I alternated the outlets on the circuits, so I have both circuit A and B all around the shop.

Do you run droplights? Sucks to turn the table saw on, and blow the breaker while also instantly being left in the dark.

I try (can't always do it) to keep my light on a different circuit that my tools.

Air compressor is also something that can come on 'by surprise' and will likely blow a 15 amp breaker if you are currently using something else, like a table saw. Sucks more to me mid-cut on a table saw and have the compressor decide to power up thus popping the breaker and leaving you in the dark.

casters, casters, casters. Being able to move stuff around easily means you will always have the right configuration for the job, and putting everything away is quick and easy.

p.s. (shameless plug) my GRM garage build thread

Pic heavy and only 2 pages so far. I don't have nearly the vertical space you do. Lots of re-purposing and little ideas I like.

In reply to rcutclif:

I was working on the assumption that both the table saw and the air compressor were 220V, and therefore not on the outlet circuit.

But if not, yeah, you're right.