New Challenge class?

Would you be allowed to change tires using a tire changer or not.

I think tire changers don't count, as that's something you pay for in the budget.

In reply to splitime:

It did say that mechanical EFI is allowed, that gets you into some mid to late '80's cars right there........ or even better diesel.

zoomx2 wrote: In reply to splitime: It did say that mechanical EFI is allowed, that gets you into some mid to late '80's cars right there........ or even better diesel.

That would be Mechanical FI. E is electrical.

E-

Per Schroeder wrote: I think tire changers don't count, as that's something you pay for in the budget.

Thanks Per, I was just wondering because my Rabbit GTI fits into the class but we used out tire changer and I didn't know if that would bump it out.

Ok..no power tools, I'll just buy the plate already made and bolt it in. But, what I don't understand is what the "f" does the ftw acronym stand for? I don't have any useful air tools anyway, but you could always use your a/c compressor with a few mods to get air if need be.

So, let's see, under $1k, pre 1960, caveman style...I might be able to place near the top even if it craps out on the 1/4 mile.

Need carbs? Small block chevy, baby. Even if the car you buy has EFI, it's not hard to retrofit a carb using bolt-on parts. Much easier than the other way around.

Supercoupe wrote: But, what I don't understand is what the "f" does the ftw acronym stand for?

FTW= For The Win!

Lurk moar, n00b!

Per Schroeder wrote: I think tire changers don't count, as that's something you pay for in the budget.

So you can pay a welder or fab shop to do the "non-caveman" work and that's ok? I'm cornfused. I thought no power tools were allowed? I want to see pictures of three people sweating their asses off trying to get a low profile R compound mounted up with hand tools. You know, with that exasperated, "WHY THE HELL ARE WE DOING THIS WITHOUT POWER TOOLS???" look in their eyes. That picture deserves a trophy, to remind others how wise they are for using power tools.

Even as a starving college student, I knew the value of power tools...a Dremel, a 4" grinder, and a drill can do a LOT for under $100 at your local imported tool store. Interestingly enough, none of these objects make good hammers.

Bryce

I was worried about someone getting hurt while trying to mount an R compound with spoons. Rather not have to deal with that issue.

And it's not like the whole car has to be built w/o power. After all, you'll be bolting on parts that were purchased that have been welded, drilled, etc.

This sub-class was specifically meant for those that aren't building their cars in a well-stocked garage. The caveman thing is just a good marketing hook.

Gee...maybe I could get the gecko to help fund the deal through a sponsorship.....

A real man would build his car with just a 15/16" wrench and a stack of coins.

So what if you bought a partially finished project (that was available to all on this board) where the previous owner used a welder/ power tool/ etc?

I've got a car that could qualify, but there was welding done by the po.

This subclass is perfect for me. I bought an old IROC_Z that someone put a Q-Jet on & all I have is basic hand tools. (ok, I have a electric drill, but I'd be worth getting a hand drill for the project) I don't know how to weld anyway. Bound to find some animal skin seat covers at a yard sale or flea market. Add a few pictagrams.... This gets better all the time I just hope this subclass sticks around long enough for me to participate.

SVreX wrote: So what if you bought a partially finished project (that was available to all on this board) where the previous owner used a welder/ power tool/ etc? I've got a car that could qualify, but there was welding done by the po.

I laughed when I first saw this because I thought it said there was welding by a pro!

What if Chuck stiched the frame together, but used no welder?

SVreX wrote: So what if you bought a partially finished project (that was available to all on this board) where the previous owner used a welder/ power tool/ etc? I've got a car that could qualify, but there was welding done by the po.

Walking the line there. I'd say no, but not my call.

SVreX wrote: So what if you bought a partially finished project (that was available to all on this board) where the previous owner used a welder/ power tool/ etc? I've got a car that could qualify, but there was welding done by the po.

Hopefully, the people who enter this class will take it seriously, and basically perform the job with bolt on parts and a relatively un-molested car.

Look at what you get out of it- an article showing how you built a car without tools, and competed (probably pretty well) against people with a whole lot of resources.

IMHO, it's not that far from the intent of the Challenge in the first place.

I really like the idea, and it's cool to see the thoughts that are coming out.

Eric

poopshovel wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: No power tools = no power tools. AR-15 ftw.

A Bushmaster m4 will put a clean hole through quarter inch steel plate. It will penetrate 3/8 steel, but starts to mushroom the exit hole. It would work perfectly for quarter inch bolts. I'm not sure if a .308 will punch a 3/8 inch hole, but a .338LM would definately work. Must Test.

better be a good aim...wouldn't wanna hit the mrs while she's holding the plate....

DILYSI Dave wrote: Walking the line there. I'd say no, but not my call.

Honestly, I agree with you, but Per kinda opened the door when he said this:

Per Schroeder wrote: And it's not like the whole car has to be built w/o power. After all, you'll be bolting on parts that were purchased that have been welded, drilled, etc. This sub-class was specifically meant for those that aren't building their cars in a well-stocked garage. The caveman thing is just a good marketing hook.

To exclude the car I bought would mean that you'd have to rule out any car that a previous owner had worked on with power or air tools. So, no low-buck tower reinforcements, no relocated batteries (if the mounts or wiring holes were drilled), no work performed with air tools, etc. Most of the enticing partially finished projects listed for sale in the $200X Classifieds would be disqualified.

I'm willing to play by the rules, but I'd like an interpretation.

Specifically, the car I bought was listed on the classifieds, available to all, and sat for a long time. The previous owner had removed an EFI motor and installed a mechanically injected motor, which took custom motor mounts (which were on the car when I got it). They were welded by Mr. Joshua (and though I love you, Josh, I didn't mean to insult you by suggesting you were a pro ).

There is one more thing that could not be done without power tools- a custom drive shaft. But I could have it built and fit it in the budget quite easily.

Thoughts?

i can just see the thoughts of the new class openeing up a new rule added that everyone that uses firearms to work on thier car must do so in a very safe manner and dont annoy your neibors with your use of firepower for dilling holes......

"yes judges, these holes for this plate here was done in the back forty using a 30-06 to get the right size hole and had to factor in the case of coors beer to get the aim right to hit it...."

the thoughts of the cave man class+beer+firearms=just something thats going to make the news.....

lets look at it from the standpoint of if you had bought the car and motor separate. you can purchase motor mounts for a variety of engine swaps. still a bit of a gray area but you paid for the parts instead of making them and that seems to fit Per's intent for the class.

SVreX wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Walking the line there. I'd say no, but not my call.

Honestly, I agree with you, but Per kinda opened the door when he said this:

Per Schroeder wrote: And it's not like the whole car has to be built w/o power. After all, you'll be bolting on parts that were purchased that have been welded, drilled, etc. This sub-class was specifically meant for those that aren't building their cars in a well-stocked garage. The caveman thing is just a good marketing hook.

To exclude the car I bought would mean that you'd have to rule out any car that a previous owner had worked on with power or air tools. So, no low-buck tower reinforcements, no relocated batteries (if the mounts or wiring holes were drilled), no work performed with air tools, etc. Most of the enticing partially finished projects listed for sale in the $200X Classifieds would be disqualified. I'm willing to play by the rules, but I'd like an interpretation. Specifically, the car I bought was listed on the classifieds, available to all, and sat for a long time. The previous owner had removed an EFI motor and installed a mechanically injected motor, which took custom motor mounts (which were on the car when I got it). They were welded by Mr. Joshua (and though I love you, Josh, I didn't mean to insult you by suggesting you were a pro ). There is one more thing that could not be done without power tools- a custom drive shaft. But I could have it built and fit it in the budget quite easily. Thoughts?

The cars that are eligible for this class were all ORIGINALLY built using the most modern technology available at the time of their manufacture.

My interpretation is that once you procure the vehicle specifically to compete in this class power tools are no longer a class legal option,including farming out fab work.Regardless of the car's past it is now relegated to primitive building strategies and means.

This class is going to require more than a bit of honesty on the part of the competitors.I don't foresee that being a problem with the individuals of this board,but you never know...

I disagree, farming out or buying custom parts should be allowed since the cost would most likely be more than fabricating them yourself with the power tools available nowadays. And factor that cost into the build and your eating into some precious $$$ that could be used elsewhere.
You just can't assemble those parts utilizing power is the way I've come to interpret the rule.