New Challenge Class?

bluej wrote: I support some recognition of that for those of us going up against the likes of the Hong Norr's.

recognition in the form of a black t-shirt that says "Sorry baby, i only date crack whores", or did you have something else in mind?

Now, the view from the other side :) I'm not going to be building a Challenge car, but I figure I'll throw in a few things. This is not bitching, just some observations.

I'd get chucked into the shop class simply because people would believe I had some sort of magical access to parts or equipment. I've been called a ringer whether my Locost was going up against an ex-Challenge Locost or a supercharged Atom. I've been told that if I brought the Targa Miata - built in my home garage on jackstands - to the UTCC it would be in shop class.

But the only exotic tool at Flyin' Miata is a used, crappy plasma cutter. Otherwise, we have a bandsaw that won't cut straight, a grinder, belt sander, a chop saw and a couple of welders. Oh, and a lift. No CNC tools anywhere to be seen, the closest thing we have to that is a digital caliper. If I need a bender, I go visit one of the other shops in town, and if I need a paint booth I staple plastic to the ceiling in my home garage. It's true, I have access to a bunch of old Miata parts. Great if you're building a Miata :)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure I see the point. Shops don't necessarily have any more facilities than guys with killer garages. Shops can't afford to pay for the amount of time it takes to build a car, so it would be built mostly after hours. Let the shops compete on an even ground, they're not going to do any better or worse than the amateurs, as they really don't have any advantage.

My only concern is that there is a gray area between what is a shop and what is not.

I run DILYSI Motorsports. What this means is that once a month I will do some little fab job for a buddy or local racer and that hopefully at the end of the year I've made enough to keep tires on the racecar without killing the family budget. This is all done in my basement with a fairly modest home workshop.

Am I a shop?

No more than "Hong Norr Racing" is a "race team."

AngryCorvair wrote:

bluej wrote: I support some recognition of that for those of us going up against the likes of the Hong Norr's.

recognition in the form of a black t-shirt that says "Sorry baby, i only date crack whores", or did you have something else in mind?

I have that t-shirt.... thy didn't like it when i wore it to work.

They didn't like the "You're all whores." shirt either... :(

Keith wrote: I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure I see the point.

I'm with Keith. If we're talking UTCC where money is no object, then I think it makes sense to have another class. In regards to the $2009, I don't see the point. Individuals can use all the exact same tools as teams or shops can, assuming time is valueless for all involved parties and the budget is the same for everybody it seems like a relatively even playing field.

Bryce

I like the 'idea' but agree with those who have spoken against it.

I've been in shops that have had little in the way of 'good' equipment and have seen guys' garages with small cnc mills.

I have a garage shop that is a legit business, but any challenge work would have to be done 'after hours' and I sure don't have even after hours time to spare...

The $200X and a person's free time are the limiting factors, shop or not.

There might be a guy out there who has been building his $200x car over the past 6 years with minimal tools, just work and sweat, who could win by virtue of getting good deals, OCD attention to detail, and a plan.

-James

The 'what's a shop' gray area is pretty big. Mongrel Motorsports had access to all kinds of machine tools etc after hours, the Cheaparral guys used Procter & Gamble's facilities. Would that count as 'shop sponsored'? (BTW, I am in no way knocking their accomplishments, both teams did great jobs!) Or is this class strictly for established race shops, like, say, BSI Racing, OPM Motorsports, Speed Source, etc? Regardless of the access the Mongrel and Cheaparral guys had to tools etc, they were still privateer 'after hours' teams, whereas the race shops could incorporate building a car into their daily routines. That gives those shops an unfair advantage.

So I have no problem with a separate class for race shops but I agree with the others who say the BIG trophy should go to the winning privateer. Particularly when he wins overall.

no matter which way you go, its all about coming down and getting drunk, BSing with everyone for who got the better killer deal on that pos that they are racing and trying to avoid the same fate as the batvan, and bribing the judges. and wondering what type of monster is going to be brought by wheels....

....now i just have to get the money and finish the car to attand this year...sigh...