Newb autocross drama question.

My new club I started with this year has been a learning experience. First off- we are not SCCA sanctioned (though we do go by the SCCA rulebook for classing and course design). I don't know why we are not SCCA yet, as the guys with the biggest hats are always busy at the events, and I never have time in my schedule to make it to any of the mid week meetings to ask those questions.  
 

we are a fledgling group, being our second year in existence. And since I'm still pretty new to the group I don't want to make any waves in the puddle. 
 

one thing that has bothered me is the points system. They are not enforcing heavily the mods for classing. And a great example of this is a guy that blows most everyone's doors off with raw time, but is sitting in E street with me. Now, even if we both drove the same car I could never touch this guy. He's an alien behind the wheel. But beyond that, is when I found our region has an invitational, and you only get invited to that if you win your class in our club. 

so while the points system doesn't mean anything in our club (they hand out some certificates at a pizza party), they do mean something on a grander scale. I've talked during lunches at events to the "really fast driver", and he's admitted his car isn't legal for ES. Mine isn't either, so I can't complain. But it seems he is taking advantage of the leniency of the big hat guys toward rules. 
 

should I even bother following up on this, or just go back to having fun? For the record, I got second place in ES this year. I WOULD HAVE gotten invited to the invitational had he not been in my class. 

And you too would have been illegal.

Leave the drama at home.

As your car isn't legal either leave it alone; technically the 3rd place guy is the one who should be getting going to the invitational as currently 1st and 2nd (you) place are not legal. If you bring this up and they strictly enforce the rules, you are going to end up either having to change your car to make it ES legal or moving up into ESP or some other calls that will require more mods (money) to make your car competitive. You're about to open a giant can of worms

It sounds like you have really fun events, leave it alone and keep having fun.

If you want to autox competitively, bring it up. And then figure out what your new class will be or how you're demodding your car to be ES legal. You really don't have much leg to stand on if your car isn't legal. 

If you're autox'ing for fun, why bring it up? Just keep having fun. 

Well, I would tell him the next time you see him that he needs to move classes or make his car legal or you'll have to speak with the people in charge and maybe even protest him.

Make sure you're prepared to do so and that you are legal for your class too before you take it to that level.

Otherwise, see if you can move classes to one that fits your car's speed and classification.

I see this a lot with smaller clubs, pretty nonchalant and laid back, focusing on having fun instead of following the rules too closely.  If you're part of the circle of friends that runs the events, then you can practically get away with murder.

So either the people running the club need to enfirce the rules equally to allow the invitational piece work properly or they need to come up with their own classification system or base the invitational on PAX times for the top X number of competitors based on their best PAX scores from each event.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Right. And I agree with that, I'm actually in the process of changing my car back to stock as much as possible. The only thing that I am not legal in is a test pipe that came with my car, and that's because of the oil blow by I get. 
 

third place was actually my friend who was driving my car, so he would not be legal either. I will say this, I am not upset that I did not get to go to the invitational, just more upset that somebody else would be able to use this leniency of the rules to get somewhere instead of running in the class they should've been classed in. Hopefully they get a little more strict and resolve these rules later on. For now, I'm just having fun. 

In reply to Stefan :

Funny story about that. So they use PAX in our club, and at the invitational, "really fast driver" couldn't make the cut. 

I really cant see your issue if your suggesting that neither of you are legal.  Why dont you switch to the class you should be in and let this other guy continue to dominate ES?

"I'm illegal and hoping that I can get the faster illegal guy in front of me bumped, for being illegal" 

I'm just so confused...

Oh wait, you must be a spec miata racer!

In reply to 79rex :

Because it's wrong either way. I'm not saying I should be allowed, but I am saying that "this guy" verbally admitted to knowingly bending the rules. He knew how to cheat the system. I, on the other hand, was not aware of this until he mentioned it. And, again, I'm only here for the fun. So if they did invite me, I would very much make everyone aware that I was not legal the entire season (which a few of the big hats already knew, because I had asked them questions about classing my car and told them I would like to just run for exhibition)

Moving forward you should class yourself correctly and encourage others to do so.  My region is really strict about classing and it's no problem, in fact it helps when any of us travel to other regions.  Not getting "caught out" by serious business regions makes you feel like you actually earned your way to where you claim to be.

If I called my STR car a CS car I'd clean up in PAX but I'd know it wasn't earned.  I just feel bad for the dudes who did something relatively trivial (lightweight flywheel) and end up in Street Prepared without a clue about car prep and get their ass handed to them.  It disheartens newcomers.

In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :

And I think that might be what the leniency is part of. Since we are a new group, we have about 18 in average attendance. We are trying to grow the group, both with word of mouth and with flyers. We have seen a lot of people show up for half a day though, or just show up, register, and then leave. It doesn't help that our location is usually on a mountain or a fairgrounds parking lot. So weather beats a lot of people out. (See pic)
 

think what I'll do is let this go another season, if the same guy is doing the same thing I'll talk to him about his car and point out the spirit of this game. And maybe even tell him he's a better driver than most and could easily win his actual legal class. 

First off, get your own business in order before you go calling out others for bending the rules, then at that point you'll have to decide whether it's really worth it to you to pursue the issue further. 

Do you actually know what the offending mods are? That could sway my opinion on the situation pretty drastically one way or the other. 

In reply to Furious_E :

I do not. That's why I said I would have a conversation with him first. In the end it doesn't matter to me. But if someone does actually show up, that is legal, and gets pax'd by this guy, they should definitely be in the know. 

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

  I just feel bad for the dudes who did something relatively trivial (lightweight flywheel) and end up in Street Prepared without a clue about car prep and get their ass handed to them.  It disheartens newcomers.

 

Our region tends to be a little lenient on people running in the Novice class to avoid crushing them right off the bat. For example, if you have an otherwise stock car that would fit in Street but are running a cold-air intake and are a Novice, we'll let that slide for the season (unless you are absolutely dominating) and then give them a heads-up that once you finish your Novice season, you will either have to demod or get bumped to the proper class. 

I did have someone take advantage of that at the very last event this season, which really infuriated me though. Guy shows up in a brand-new Audi TT and I'm tech inspecting it and see that it has a cold-air intake and a cat-back exhaust. There was an APR Stage II badge on the back, which I'm not really up to speed on Euro stuff, and assumed it meant that intake and exhaust were each a stage, making it a Stage II. It had some huge freaking brakes, but the calipers had Audi branding on them, so I figured they were stock. I see that he has it lettered for Novice D/Street, so I don't crack the whip. Near the end of the event, someone comes up to me and gripes "Why is he in Street with a Stage II tune?" Come again? "That APR Stage II badge means it has their higher-tier tune. And he took the rear seats and paneling out." Look,a nd sure enough, the interior bits that were in it when I tech'd the car are now in the grass. Check with the registrar and he says the guy told him it was bone stock. I'm fuming, mention it to the event head and he says "It's his first event with us this season and the last event of the season. Let him have his day in the sun, and then tell him next year that he either has to run A/SP without the interior or STH with the interior in." Okay, fair enough. A few weeks later, I run into someone I know who autocrosses in a bunch of regions and happen to mention it and he goes "Wait, he was running Novice? He's not a novice. He's been autocrossing for 5 or 6 years." That really irked me, knowing that he went to a region that didn't know him and registered as Novice and acted deceiving all to finish high at the event on an easy PAX. Next time he shows up, I'm not falling for that one.

In reply to NickD :

The SCCA should have an online registry that can be accessed by tech, they should be able to look at how many you've attended. Not that this would help in our case since our club is not SCCA. 
 

side question: what does it take to become SCCA sanctioned? I can't get my Mazda racers discount because of this. Kinda mad about that. 

How close does the club follow SCCA classing? The local club I autocross with uses scca as a baseline for classing, but expands on it by allowing drivers several allowances while still being in stock class. They also consolidate some of the classes to prevent the class sprawl scca has. As long as the springs are stock, and you aren't using a tuned ECU, you could basically run in their version of "stock" class with wider than stock wheels and suspension tuning with two sway bars. It allows more of a brung what you got while still enforcing several "stock" rules like ride height. But there are several allowances that would probably bump you up in SCCA. 

Though there has been a TT RS that is running stock class that is obviously modified with coilovers and other mods, even if it ran in the modified class, it would be really competitive, if not winning its class based on the time the driver is getting. I know the shop that performs work on the car and the mods performed...My guess is ignorance, but they've been going to events for 2 to 3 years already. I think most just dont want to be that guy to say something, I know I kind of don't b/c its not in my class. 

Why don't you just run in the class your car is legal for?  That way you won't be running against the alien.

NickD said:
That really irked me, knowing that he went to a region that didn't know him and registered as Novice and acted deceiving all to finish high at the event on an easy PAX. Next time he shows up, I'm not falling for that one.

Congratulations, Mr TT owner. You have successfully entered bogus numbers into your SCCA classing and successfully obtained bogus numbers back.

jstein77 said:

Why don't you just run in the class your car is legal for?  That way you won't be running against the alien.

Because the class I am gunning for and basically set up for is the ES class. Like I said, the only modification that keeps me out of ES is the test pipe on my car

_ said:

jstein77 said:

Why don't you just run in the class your car is legal for?  That way you won't be running against the alien.

Because the class I am gunning for and basically set up for is the ES class. Like I said, the only modification that keeps me out of ES is the test pipe on my car

Yeah, no cat would send you to, I believe C/SP, which is not a fun place to be in a near-stock Miata. The sad part is, although that test pipe bumps you there, on a Miata it does basically jack-E36 M3 for actual performance. My 1.6L with a header, high-flow converter, cat-back exhaust and drop-in air filter still made 92hp at the rear tires, which is what most people make stock.

So the question is; how difficult is it to fix the blow by issue, thereby eliminating the need for the test pipe?

Obviously the blow by will clog the cat; can you find a couple of cats from people parting out cars?

I'd either get the car back to being strictly legal or let this go.

Another alternative might be to let Mr Speedy drive your car at an event; this is sometimes really helpful. If the guy goes as fast in your car as his, that sort of settles the issue for you.

Refocus your energy. Fix the oil issue, get rid of the test pipe.   That's part of competing, and it sounds like you're serious about competing.

I agree with others, make your car legal (which from other threads, sounds like you are in the process of doing) and then maybe have a chat with the sanctioning body about Cheaty McCheatyface's car. It's hard to stand on that "He's not legal" mountain, when you yourself are not legal, no matter how small an advantage, if any, your infraction is giving you.

How goes the saying? "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."