Pushrod V6 question

Knurled wrote: The 231 has an interesting story. It was originally 225ci, being 3/4 of a Buick 300 V8. Then Buick sold the tooling to Jeep. Then Buick bought the tooling back and stretched it slightly to 231ci. It even got an even fire crank in '77! The 4.1 wasn't all that common ('81-82? Somewhere round there, yeah) and isn't much of a performance block compared to the late 231/3.8. The Series II is way better than the old stuff in every way possible, but there isn't as much of an upgrade path as with the old style blocks.

the 4.1 V6 was around until at least the 84 model year in Regals, LeSabres, and even some Caddies... the Caddy blocks are the strongest, but also the most rare. all the turbo Regal guys have pretty much scoured all the junkyards and got most of the good blocks, but there are still a few out there to be found..

Onetrillionrpm wrote:

Will wrote: Especially in SC trim. (Okay, so the SC is a 3.8...but mine is a 4.3...) picture went here, no need to repost it

I love those cars! What are your numbers on it? Ever try autocrossing in it? I recall a gentleman in the nwoa scca chaper that ran a sc tbird and did pretty good considering its size, and SLA suspension.

377 RWHP, 459 lb-ft., and 3,430 lbs. Ran 13.21 at 109.98 on street tires, 12.46 at 110.41 on slicks. At this point the M90 blower is holding it back quite a bit. When funds permit, I'll be upgrading to a TVS1900.

Yes, I've autocrossed it. Quite a bit, actually. I ran it in SM at two national tours (and got murdered), but it did pretty well locally--got 3 FTDs in 4 events at one point.

Edit because ETs got hotlinked as email addresses.

Knurled wrote: None of the Big Three did an aluminum pushrod V6. Aftermarket blocks for most of them do exist, though. The 3.9 Mopar was based on the 5.2 Magnum engine (don't call it a 318, that's different) and we all know about the Chevy and Buick connections but Ford did do one, sort of - the 3.8 is very, very loosely based on Windsor and Cleveland architecture. All three makes have made various other pushrod V6s, not just V6s made on V8 tooling. If you want compact and light V6, look into the GM 60 degree units. Some of the newer ones are around 200hp and they're a very compact package.

Actually the 3.9 predated the Magnum engines by several years. They were developed for the new Dakota in '87, and replaced the 225 Slant 6 in the Rams and Ram Vans.

The early 3.9 was 3/4 a 318. Used the same shaft mounted rockers as the LA 318/360, and IIRC same valves as the 318. Shared the same bore and stroke as the 318 as well. I suspect the same pushrods too.

novaderrik wrote: all the turbo Regal guys have pretty much scoured all the junkyards and got most of the good blocks, but there are still a few out there to be found..

They can have 'em. The '109 block is stronger.

Ranger50 wrote:

dean1484 wrote: Is the yamaha motor in the SHO alu?

AFAIK, iron block. Same block as every other 3.0 Vulcan out there.

The 89-95 yamaha engine doesn't have anything in common with a vulcan other than the 60* and bellhousing......thats it. Iron block specific to the engine, and the heads/intake/pan were aluminum.

the duratec based 96-99 sho engine is all aluminum however, and probably one of the lightest v8's that is relatively "inexpensive" to obtain.

Knurled wrote:

novaderrik wrote: all the turbo Regal guys have pretty much scoured all the junkyards and got most of the good blocks, but there are still a few out there to be found..

They can have 'em. The '109 block is stronger.

not according to some people.. that may be true in stock form, but they say there is no functional difference between a 109 block and and older 3.8 or 4.1 block once you do all the stuff to it to hold insane power levels like filling the water jackets and installing a stud girdle.

So to summarize the original question, the 60 degree GM is the one for cheap/reliable performance?

In reply to Knurled:

Whoops, Mopar did a pre-Magnum 3.9 liter V6. It was the original 6 in the Dakota and was a 318 LA minus 2 cylinders.

I believe Shelby used it in his ill-fated spec racer.

You can get good performance out of either the 90 degree or 60 degree engine.

The 60 degree is a bit lighter and more compact.

the 60 degree Chevy comes in 2.8, 3.1, 3.4 front or rear drive 3.5 and 3.9 displacements were front drive only.

90 degree Chevy 200, 229, and 262 sizes rear drive only

90 degree Buick 3.0 and 3.8 front and rear drive 3.3 FWD only

Moparman wrote: In reply to Knurled: Whoops, Mopar did a pre-Magnum 3.9 liter V6. It was the original 6 in the Dakota and was a 318 LA minus 2 cylinders. I believe Shelby used it in his ill-fated spec racer.

The Shelby Can-Am used the FWD 3.3 V6, not the truck 3.9.

not sure of the performance potential of them, but Ford did make the Cologne V6, which was a 60* pushrod V6 available in a TON of different displacements (1.8L up through 4.0L) except the 4.0L SOHC and the 2.9L Cosworth quad-cam, finding one to play around with shouldn't be hard and with some exceptions, every variant of the Cologne V6 was available solely in a RWD/AWD/4WD application

EDIT: doh, forgot about the "aluminum" requirement... carry on!