John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/24/09 2:54 p.m.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pontiac_obit/index.htm?postversion=2009042414&eref=rss_topstories

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors is preparing to announce that the Pontiac car brand, once marketed as GM's "Excitement division," will be killed off, according to a source familiar with the decision.

An official announcement is expected Monday. GM spokesman Jim Hopson declined to comment on Pontiac's fate, saying the automaker has no announcements to make at this time.

In its most recent "viability plan" - which will be updated to reflect this new brand cut - Pontiac was not named as one of GM's four "core brands." Those are Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. But Pontiac was also not to be killed or sold off, as were Saturn, Saab and Hummer.

Instead Pontiac was to continue on as a "niche brand" focusing on just a few models.

That was already a step down for Pontiac which in 2008 was the third-best selling brand behind Chevrolet and GMC. That year the brand sold more than Cadillac and twice as many vehicles as Buick. Cadillac is a high-profile - and high profit - luxury brand while Buick is a hugely popular brand in China and is seen as resurgent in the United States.

In 2005, GM (GM, Fortune 500) vice-chairman Bob Lutz referred to Buick and Pontiac as "damaged brands" during a conference at the New York Auto Show. That set off speculation that one or both of these brands was doomed.

With a focus on affordable luxury, Buick's hopes have been revived by models like the popular Enclave crossover SUV. Improvements in Buick Quality, which earned a top ranking in a recent J.D. Power dependability survey and a public acknowledgement by President Obama, have also helped Buick keep its place in the shrinking pantheon of GM names.

Pontiac performance Pontiac's association with performance dates back to the late 1950s and early 1960s. Pontiac cars were designed with wider bodies for cosmetic reasons and the wheels were pushed out to match. This "wide-track" design became a selling point and was advertised as giving Pontiac cars a distinct cornering advantage over other cars.

But the idea of Pontiac as a performance brand was solidified in 1964 with the creation of the Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO. That car quickly evolved into, simply, the GTO and is often credited with creating a new class of American car, the muscle car.

Under Lutz, plans were formed to bring back some actual excitement to the Pontiac brand, which hadn't seen much since the Firebird - a flashier Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Camaro - ended production in 2002.

One strategy floated for Pontiac was to sell only, or mostly, rear-wheel-drive cars. That would set it apart from other GM divisions, and most cars sold in America. Rear-wheel-drive is associated with performance brands like BMW.

Unfortunately, the re-introduction of the Pontiac GTO name on a performance coupe imported from Australia didn't result in big sales. So far, the Pontiac G8, a rear-wheel-drive four-door sedan also imported from GM's Australian Holden division, hasn't been a sales success either, despite good reviews.

Pontiac's most popular products remain the G6, a decent but unexciting midsize car available as a sedan, coupe or convertible, and the Vibe, a small wagon shared with Toyota, which sells it as the Matrix.

Any plans to return Pontiac to the heavy-horsepower days of the '70s ended as gas prices rose and Congress prepared stricter fuel economy rules for the industry.

Those pressures resulted in GM quietly introducing the Pontiac G3, which had been sold in Canada only. Once again, Pontiac was selling a rebadged Chevrolet product, this time the Korean-built Aveo subcompact car.

Pontiac's current role in GM seems mostly to be to support GMC and Buick by providing a brand under which Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealers could sell non-luxury cars, filling out what then becomes a full-line showroom.

The brand-channel strategy now makes it easier for GM to phase out the brand because it would cause less harm to dealers, independent business protected by strong state franchise laws. When GM phased out Oldsmobile in the early 2000's, it cost GM more than $1 billion to buy out the contracts of Oldsmobile dealers who were left with nothing to sell.

This time, most Pontiac dealers will have other products to sell.

curtis
curtis New Reader
4/24/09 3:12 p.m.

damn and i really like the new soltice coupe.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/24/09 3:17 p.m.

I hope they slip the solstice over to Chevy..

personally, I liked it's Saturn version better

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/24/09 3:27 p.m.

Why are they not killing Buick? The average age of Buick buyers has to be somewhere between 65 and "deceased".

I'm sure that many sell near MSRP, but it doesn't seem like the next generation will be filling their parents' shoes and shopping Buick when they reach that age. Who will be buying Buicks in eight years?

There would seem to be a bit more of a market spread between Chevy and Pontiac than there is between Buick and Cadillac. You should be able to convince a Buick buyer to step up to lower end Caddy without too much trouble.

GM should have chosen Chevy, Pontiac (or Saturn), GMC and Cadillac as their "four core brands".

psteav
psteav GRM+ Memberand Reader
4/24/09 3:29 p.m.

Buick sells a TON of cars in China. Also, as the boomers here age, they're still selling enough here to stay afloat, and supposedly the sfuff they're building is quite a bit better than it was.

Personally, as much as it sucks to lose a historic marque that still makes some interesting stuff, it's probably a good idea. Badge engineering is just about at the end of its run, I think.

Strizzo
Strizzo Dork
4/24/09 3:36 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: I hope they slip the solstice over to Chevy.. personally, I liked it's Saturn version better

the saturn looks better outside, the solstice looks better inside.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
4/24/09 4:23 p.m.

Okay, here's the deal: it's internal company politics AKA 'business as usual'. Exactly what got them in the pickle they are in right now. Want another example of that kind of idiocy? WTF, after killing Pontiac, are they doing still building two different lines of trucks (GMC and Chevy)? They could have saved a WAD by ditching GMC and producing all trucks as Chevys, ditching Buick as a line in the States, introducing a lower priced Cadillac to take its place (many of my Buick customers aspired to a Caddy but couldn't afford it, there's your market right there) and keeping Pontiac as a mid priced line between Chevy and Cadillac. So, Chevy/Pontiac/Cadillac on the car side, each with its own true identity and Chevy on the truck side. But no, that would make WAY too much sense.

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/24/09 4:43 p.m.

Or dispose of Chevrolet trucks as a whole, badge all the trucks, SUVs and vans as GMC.

Chevrolet = Subcompact, compact, econo line midsize passenger car/wagons, SSports line (SS Cobalt Solstice, Camaro, Corvette)

Buintiac = mid line midsize, midline fullsize passenger cars

Cadillac = high line midsize, high line full size

GMC = small truck (1500 class), large truck (2500+ class), small van (minivan), large van (commercial), small SUV

Sell Chevy and GMC in one building, sell Buick and Cadillac in another.

bruceman
bruceman New Reader
4/24/09 4:45 p.m.

I don't believe it

Strizzo
Strizzo Dork
4/24/09 5:11 p.m.
John Brown wrote: Or dispose of Chevrolet trucks as a whole, badge all the trucks, SUVs and vans as GMC. Chevrolet = Subcompact, compact, econo line midsize passenger car/wagons, SSports line (SS Cobalt Solstice, Camaro, Corvette) Buintiac = mid line midsize, midline fullsize passenger cars Cadillac = high line midsize, high line full size GMC = small truck (1500 class), large truck (2500+ class), small van (minivan), large van (commercial), small SUV Sell Chevy and GMC in one building, sell Buick and Cadillac in another.

lol, you left out pontiac when it comes time to sell them

Travis_K
Travis_K HalfDork
4/24/09 6:11 p.m.

GMC trucks no longer have any purpose. In the 60s and 70s there were enough differences it made sense, but that was 30 years ago. GM doesnt really make many decisions that I can understand though.

Appleseed
Appleseed Reader
4/24/09 6:57 p.m.

Exactly, Woody. The last Buick anyone under 65 cared about was in 1987. They were called GNXs.

kb58
kb58 New Reader
4/24/09 7:24 p.m.
Woody wrote: Why are they not killing Buick? The average age of Buick buyers has to be somewhere between 65 and "deceased".

I agree. The vets from "the last great war" are the ones buying them, where anything with a domestic badge are the only ones on their shopping list. Targeting them as customers is like throwing apples through a window that's closing.

Personally I feel sorry when I see an old person driving a domestic, knowing they're driving something that's less reliable than what they deserve, but that's just me, in SoCal where domestic cars are rare. I understand older peoples' love and dedication to this country, and the sacrifices they gave for it; I just don't like how domestic products aren't something to be more proud of, yet they buy them anyway.

Enough of a rant.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/24/09 7:37 p.m.

I would not call a domestic less reliable.. my mom has NEVER had problem with the ones she buys... at least not until they reach into the high 100s on that joke of a maintance scheadule she keeps....

and her old Ponitac Sunbird (95) is STILL going with almost 200,000 on it.. at least until my idiot cousin finally runs it into something and kills it.. he has wrecked every car he has owned

P71
P71 GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/24/09 8:05 p.m.

kb58, You must not get out much. Buick has the #1 Quality in the world right now. Poor quality domestics? Living under a rock...

kb58
kb58 New Reader
4/24/09 8:13 p.m.

I don't let surveys tell me how to think. The fact that some people have no problems means little to those who do. The fact that I've had trouble means that I have a very legitimate reason to not buy another. Unless you're willing to pay my repair bills I'm free to buy as I please.

Why some people have exactly opposite experiences with the same brand of car is a big problem in its own right... What's with this "Monday car" and "Friday car" crap anyway? The last car cost me $4000 within 4 years from new, and that doesn't include the $3000 ABS brake system thankfully repaired under warranty.

Meanwhile, "under my rock," our Toyotas are problem-free, but than again I haven't seen those surveys.

PaulY
PaulY New Reader
4/24/09 9:30 p.m.

I've seen the surveys bashing toyota for their complete lack of quality lately...

It's a shame Pontiac can't hang around as a niche brand putting out some cool cars. It's a real shame when they put out the GTO and the G8, cars people rave about and offer so much for their price, not enough people buy them to keep them going. You can't say those cars were out to lunch either, i just think everyone just discounted them as large grand ams and didn't bother instead of realizing that companies like Mercedes and bmw put out cars just like them for a lot more.

forzav12
forzav12 New Reader
4/24/09 9:46 p.m.

What a load of crap. Get your head out of the sand and realize that the domestics are the equal(or better than) the Asian companies and superior to most of the Euros. Yes, that was Buick that knocked Lexus off the #1 perch at JD Powers. Yes, that is the Buick Enclave that routinely outpoints its competition(including the Lexus) in magazine comparos. And, no, that segment isn't dominated by ancient buyers. Yes, that is Buick that is one of China's(world's quickest growing market) most prestigious brands. Yes that is Buick introducing a redesigned luxo sedan that promises to to be quieter,smoother riding and equipped with all the B&Ws expected in that segment.

That said, it really is a shame that this unprecedented back market has possibly lead to the demise of Pontiac. The G8s, the Solstice and the stillborn UTE all deserved better.

Appleseed
Appleseed Reader
4/24/09 10:02 p.m.

Ha, ha. This argument would be relevant if this was 1991.

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
2gz21rnm7Crt8gGTi8Xj4MT00sQKDSJFBmChtl8N3vRf5hguO97Q4NGsZ0o1iJXf