Quandry: SE30 vs SM

OK. So, one more race left in my 2nd season... I was in GTS5 or BMW CMOD which is a result of going racing with a car built for speed w/o rules. My wallet can't compete. The chassis is fast and I had some good results but what I really need to have a shot at winning is a whole new motor and rear end setup. The cost of those 2 things exceeds the cost of a spec race car.

I am not sure what I'm doing at this time but I am doing something... and it is the silly season. Lots for sale right now. I have been looking at a "no excuses" series since I started. With good car preparation I should have a "more or less" equal chance at victory if I can drive the car well. I have narrowed the field down to either SE30 or SM.

Facts at my disposal:
- I know BMWs and I know a lot of SE30 guys. I like the platform, I've owned 3.
- A SM car can run SCCA or NASA.
- An SM car is more expensive than an SE30
- An SM car has bigger fields and more racing opportunity in the NE
- I don't have the funds to take all of that opportunity so it might not matter
- I am unfamiliar with working on the Miata or it's nuances
- An SM car is small and light and slow
- An SE30 is medium sized and heavier and also slow
- SM tires are $20 cheaper than SE30 tires right now

Which do you choose? I have already ruled out Spec944 and other things like SRF due to various reasons so please... stay on topic. One or the other and why.

Having owned 3 E30s and now one Miata (the E30 was a built one with coilovers, S52 etc)

I'll take Miata. I also like that it's just as easy, if not easier, to work on than the E30.......with the exception of the location of oil filter.

ANd because you should try something new.

I find my Miata slightly easier to work on than my E30, but then again it's Miata #4 and E30 #1 so it's probably familiarity that makes things easier.

If I were in your shoes I'd probably look for an SE30 for the simple reason that you already know how to wrench on one and drive one at the limit.

Since you want to compete the answer for me would come down to the prep levels of the two classes. Out here in the west SM is much more serious and I think guys have engines built from the ground up to take advantage of all the rules etc. I've heard rumors of thousands of dollars on engines. If you need to have one of those engines and that level of prep to be competitive then a SM on your budget might not be fun

If a garage prepped SM can be competitive in your area I would lean that way just because of the prevalence of the series nationwide as it also means more likely you can sell the car for more when you are done with it

I would race SE30 if I could. You say SM gets bigger fields, what size of fields does SE30 get?

In the Central Florida region of SCCA, we get 40 and 50 car fields at tracks like Daytona and Sebring. There were a few weekends of over 60 cars. For a while, I could compete with my $7k SM. Then the big money guys showed up. The guys that could afford $25k cars and $6k motors. I had a stock motor with 196k on it, putting 112.8hp to the rear wheels.

I also got tired of trying to finish in the top 10 against guys who would just as soon knock you out of the way as pass you clean. What did they care... they'd just have the guy that took care of their car fix everything by the next race, complete with fresh paint. I got tired of pulling the dents out of my fenders and doors all the time, then scrubbing the tire marks off.

Now I run F Production with that same car, and I've never been happier. Even with that same motor, I won the regional championship in F Prod, and finished 3rd in the January National.

Its the opposite here in NASA-SE. Huge SE30 field and small SM field.

The SM cars that are out there are VERY competitive and hard to be a front runner unless you dump money into one of the engine builders like Sunbelt(I don't think they are around anymore).

SE30 almost seems like the GRM crowd out between the two, atleast in NASA-SE. I have counted 20-30 cars at an event before. They are a tight-knit group as well. Mike Skeen was the creme of the crop from our SE30 group. The cars can be had for less than SMs. Having so many cars in the paddock like yours is nice when something breaks. Most likely someone will have a spare and due to the tight knit community someone is likely to give a hand.

I like the SM generally more but I am a gigantard. So I will probably end up with a SE30 when the time comes to pick up another track car. This time around it will be a complete and log booked car.

Joshua wrote: I would race SE30 if I could. You say SM gets bigger fields, what size of fields does SE30 get?

There were something like 60 cars at the SCCA SM race at VIR.

There were 17 SE30 at Summit Point for Hyperfest.

Anti-stance wrote: I like the SM generally more but I am a gigantard. So I will probably end up with a SE30 when the time comes to pick up another track car. This time around it will be a complete and log booked car.

Log booked and racing is the only way to go for either of these cars - SM and SE30 are both too slow for HPDE or instructor run groups these days. My 20 year old, mostly stock street car is literally 8 sec a lap faster around Summit Point than an SE30 race winner. You have to be in a sea of them in battle to make them worthy. The beauty is in the level field not the car for sure.

Yeah, I am not looking for speed when I buy my next car, I am looking for a decent field to run in.

SM - 4 to 6 cars
SE30 - 20 to 30 cars

In reply to Anti-stance:

Is that NASA SM? SCCA seems to have huge fields. I can't believe they ever get less than 20-25 so if you prefer the smaller car or whatever, you might take a peek.

I am leaning SE30 even though my head says SM because of familiarity. I believe I can get up to speed with a new car almost immediately. I put some pretty competitive times up at NJMP in just a handful of laps with a borrowed one a couple weeks ago. They feel just like... umm... every other E30 I've ever driven except the one I race now. I also know all the regional guys and who to go to for used parts if I blow it up or bend it.

I do wonder what it would be like to take a green in a field of 60 reasonably identical cars though - that must be a rush. We start 50 cars - but with BMWCCA and NASA GTS there are 8 or more different classes and way different speed capability so the field is all spread out after the first two or three fighting with just one or two cars... and I'm into lap traffic after 4 or 5. 60 identical buzz bombs would be sweet. I might have to sell a kidney and rent one for a weekend just to try it.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I am leaning SE30 even though my head says SM because of familiarity. I believe I can get up to speed with a new car almost immediately. I put some pretty competitive times up at NJMP in just a handful of laps with a borrowed one a couple weeks ago. They feel just like... umm... every other E30 I've ever driven except the one I race now. I also know all the regional guys and who to go to for used parts if I blow it up or bend it.

That right there sounds to me like the smart decision.

The other reason that would potentially keep me from SM is that at least in parts of the country it seems to have a reputation as "Spec Pinata" and personally I can't afford to unbend my (currently non-existing) race car on a monthly basis.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

That is NASA numbers, sorry bout that.

The above posts about the 25k SM cars is why I might not go that route, since fun competition on a budget is what it is supposed to be what it is about

Did spec e36 ever take off anywhere? Heard prices on e36s are getting down to lower than e30s in some cases

For all those reasons and Mazda Motorsports, I went SM.

Besides talent and a well setup car, you need at least a pro-head to be competitive in my region. I like how the parts seem to be cheaper than BMW parts and how easy the car is to work on. Much easier than the E30 I had.

However, SM isn't for everyone. SE30 is a good series in it's own right and you can fit better if you are a bigger driver. I understand SE30 participation varies by region in SCCA but definitely at home in NASA. If you have more knowledge of them, you may enjoy it more.

In reply to amg_rx7:

I agree with everything you said there. I really would like a SM but I am settling for a SE30 when the time comes. Poor me.