Ramble and a question-Chevy Monza?

So, I've thought about this for a while as a curiosity exercise. I read into it, and it seems like the Monza is a skip and a jump away from the ideal classic pro touring setup. I mean, short-long arm front suspension, 3 link and a torque arm rear, 4 wheel disc optional, it had V8s new so modern power shouldn't involve a lot of cutting, it's relatively light(2800-3200), and it's smaller than the intermediate barges that we've all seen a thousand times.

Anyone know why these things aren't more popular than they are? Granted, the build quality was garbage when they were new and rust didn't help, but all of the engineering that went into it has to count for something, right? I can't find any fan groups of late H bodies that are anything except drag racing.

So, what's the deal with these?

There's just not many of them left, most have rusted away or have been simply worn out and junked by now. They were neat cars, although there's a lot of Vega in them under the skin.

I'm old enough to remember when they were the go to cheap teenagers car. They weren't a sports car like a Vette, Mustang, or Camaro. They also weren't a young family car. Problem was they came in the late 70s when even with a factory V8 they were a dog. Only recently have I seen interest in them start to go up.

I know they're awful stock, to be frank, what car from that era wasn't? I just think I'm seeing potential in it.

If I recall correctly, changing the #8 plug in a V-8 Monza requires either removal of the engine or going in through the fender.

Just like my old G body, I remember that quite well.

They have the reputation of being dogs even with the V8. True. 140 ish hp. My '77 went like stink though. I didn't get it new so I really don't know what its small block actually was. I know it did have the little Rochester Dual-Jet which gave crazy good throttle response. It was just a little beast of a car.

A Monza and a modern, all aluminum lump could be very entertaining.

Obligatory photo of a Dekon Monza:

Remember when they were new. Wanted a Spider. A few years later almost bought a Buick or Olds version with the 231 V6 in it. Got sidetracked though and didn't go back. The V8 version took a special tool to pull the spark plugs that only the dealer had and wouldn't sell forcing owners to either go to dealers or pull engine or make access through the fender to change plugs. Could buy the tool later though. Required going up through the bottom to change plugs with the special tool.

If you go over 200 HP the windshield will pop out!

In reply to bentwrench:

They do great burnouts while pulling a trailer with a 350 powering a procharger that's feeding the small block in the Monza though.

I ordered an 80 Spyder new with performance only in mind down to radio delete. Build quality was horrible, but between the long list I handed the dealer, (my uncle) and the things I did after they took care of the major items it was a good car. I ordered the Buick V6 because they'd stopped offering V8's and the V6 was better anyway. I modified it starting within a week or two of taking delivery. 1st thing was taking off all the stickers. Handled well and was pretty quick. Gave it to my first Ex as a fabulous parting gift and it was wrecked shortly thereafter. Still have the invoices, window sticker etc. around here somewhere.

The biggest problem was the small wheel wells that limit how much tire you can get under them. They'd make a great PT car with mini tubs.

stuart in mn wrote: Obligatory photo of a Dekon Monza:

This needs to be in the box flare thread. All kinds of awesomeness.

In reply to D2W:

I assume it is....many time.

In reply to justthatguy: In 1972 I bought a new Vega GT. (4 speed manual) The handling was fantastic. Extremely predictable and very Toss-able. Miles better than the Ford Pinto and others of the era.. The first 65,000 miles were spent at near peak RPM and the throttle was most often welded to the floor.. When the second fuel shortage hit I was able to sell it for very close to what I paid for it. ( I think the total depreciation was under $400)

The new Monza came out I ordered one of the first ones with the V8. The power was up somewhat but not as much as you'd think.. Plus the brakes were the same ones the original 4 cylinder had and simply not up to the task.. Between the added front end weight of that little 262 cu.in. V8 marginal brakes I wasn't as excited.. I did get a brief exposure to the Cosworth Vega and can tell you that engine changed the car dramatically.. Lighter than the stock 4 cylinder (aluminum head instead of cast Iron) more power than the V8 and still great handling. My thinking is a turbo'd Monza would be a astonishingly great little car..

That Chevy V8 was CRAMMED in there, I don't think the chassis was designed with V6/8 power in mind. IIRC the manifolds and I think the oil pan are special. A friend of mine has a Skyhawk with a Buick V6, changing the starter involved removing the Y pipe and passenger exhaust manifold. The plugs in that car aren't too bad though, probably has to do with the Buick heads having angled plugs. Those disc brakes are pretty small/weak too, even with the late vented rotor brakes you can get them hot without really trying. Also, 4x4" wheel pattern.

TLDR: It's just way easier to build a Nova.

Whenever I read about difficult spark plugs on older vehicles, I wonder how they actually compare to your average modern minivan. I can think of many new cars way worse than the worst of the seventies.

I saw a complete, original, unrusted, unmolested Olds version on the street here a month or two ago. Its the first one I've seen outside a dragstrip for decades.

Seems a lot of the aftermarket Vega improvements can be bolted on to these, adjustable A arms, torque arms, panhard bars, the S10 front hub conversions are pretty straightforward looks like, as are the rear. 8.5" 10 bolt too, so all good there.

I think what probably happened was that it took the aftermarket this long to make good parts for them and as such they were discarded and forgotten long ago.

Dirty thoughts involving an aluminum 5.3 LS and a T56 come to mind.

Sidenote: the only reason I asked is my mother told me about her used 73 Vega GT of yore and spoke very well of it's handling. She cursed the engine in the same breath (her exact words were "that engine was complete s***") but tried desperately to get her father to let her put a 283 or a 302 Chevy in it. He said no, and she was cursed for the rest of the period she owned the car, to the tune of 3 engines before it got to be too much.

My brother had a '75 V8 Monza back when. Yeah, power was down in the stock engine. But, duh, SBC. That got fixed on a low budget. How much power do you want?

There's nothing wrong with the car that can't be addressed with some parts-bin engineering or junkyard swaps. I like the looks. No idea of the drag coefficient, but it looks fast and it is small and light. Light, slick body, decent handling, and V8 power - Isn't that what a bunch of us claim to want?

Nova? Yes, Novas have more room, but they're heavier, taller, much less swoopy, and much more common at the car shows. Dare to be different.

I remember driving a new V6 with a 5 spd. manual and thinking that 2 of the 5 are not even needed.

Lots of 6 cyl. torque.

In reply to wheels777:

What's the result like, was the handling worth the effort?

It's cool to find people knowledgeable about H bodies, I thought everyone hated them.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

If I remember correctly reading that the car was originally designed for the rotary engine. Then GM decided not to use the rotary.

JimS wrote: In reply to BrokenYugo: If I remember correctly reading that the car was originally designed for the rotary engine. Then GM decided not to use the rotary.

Correct. They could not get the rotary to be fuel efficent enough, among other things, so they sold it to Mazda, and hastly modified the Monza to accept a V8 so that it would sell. In order to do so, they had to mill off the corner of the engine blocks and make the bellhousing with one less bolt hole to clear the firewall.

They are very neat cars. They have a really cool look to them and have decent aerodynamics. But if your are looking for a V8 car that is easy to work on and modify, you will probably have better luck elsewhere.