RX-8 or WRX?

I'm thinking about replacing my current DD, Focus ST. I don't like the dynamics of a FWD car, especially in the snow. So I really want RWD or AWD. The RX-8 and WRX seem like the best options available, because I need a car with a rear seat to ocasionally carry my 9-month old daughter.
I have an 80+ mile commute to work each day, so I am worried about the MPG of the RX-8. I've heard reports of MPG between 12 and 25. I normally beat the EPA highway estimates, what is a realistic expectation.
My budget is about $8,000-$12,000 which will buy a '02-'05 WRX with high miles or '04-'05 RX with under 50,000 miles. The RX-8 looks like the closest thing to a 4-seat Miata, but I think the WRX (especially the wagon) will be a better car to carry the kid and lots of stuff. Which one do you think is the better option?

Of the two choices, I'd go for the WRX.

Nate90LX wrote: I'm thinking about replacing my current DD, Focus ST. I don't like the dynamics of a FWD car, especially in the snow. So I really want RWD or AWD.

FWD is good in the snow because of the increased weight over the powered wheel. Unless you're trying to be a rallyist or go snow drifting, FWD is ok. As I have learned its the tires that are very important.

'02-'05 WRX with high miles

Hmm. I'm not sure what you mean, 100k?, but with turbos, they tend to demand more attention as the years/miles go by.

I would recommend the wagon and add some gold wheels.

phillyj wrote: FWD is good in the snow because of the increased weight over the powered wheel. Unless you're trying to be a rallyist or go snow drifting, FWD is ok. As I have learned its the tires that are very important.

This exactly why I don't like it. I think a well balanced RWD car is better in the snow than a FWD with 60% of the weight over the front wheels causing extreme understeer. But all that weight over the drive wheels does help in getting out of deep snow. I like being able to steer with the throttle in a RWD car, and I will break out the snow shovel when it gets too deep.

sorry I have to say it...swap a weinkel into the Subaru = Mazdubaru wRX-8

...OK carry on with legit conversation

WRX.

Neither seem ideal for an 80-mile commute--especially if/when gas skyrockets again.

I'd go w/ the WRX for reliability/practicality, but that's me.

I totally agree about FWD in the snow.

Personally, of the two vehicles you've given, I would take the WRX.

Nate90LX wrote: Unless you're trying to be a rallyist or go snow drifting, FWD is ok.

yeah cause FWD is E36 M3 at rally. Tell that to the throngs of VW Gti drivers out there tearing up the dirt or.. how about doug shepard in the srt4 neon?

or..

super 1600 rally in europe.

yup FWD is worthless at rally.. completel worthless. Infact they should aleast drive the cars in reverse so then the "correct" wheels will be driving.

Between those two, for a DD, no question in my mind - WRX.

That's probably the toughest questions in used cars right now. I love both cars, if I had the money I'd have both, but to choose one is really tough. The WRX as a 4-door is nice, but the back is kind of cramped actually (if we're talking car seats), the WRX wagon is better. Honestly though for car seats/small kids the suicide rear doors on the RX-8 are just the cat's meow. Unfortunately the RX8 doesn't have the trunk space to go with it. Both aren't great on gas around town but the RX8 actually does really well on the highway with the 6-speed, plus rotary's like 87 over turbo-flat-4's premium demands.

I don't know, I can't choose one over the other. I'd prefer an STi, but they're more expensive. So for me it would be a toss-up between a WRX wagon and an RX8. sigh

Bring your car seat, drive both, and pick the one you like best. Either way is an absolute great car that you go wrong with.

I was browsing around and found that an early wrx 02-03 might be something I can afford in the near future. What things should I be looking out for on a car like that? I think I remember hearing about strength issues with the transmission when they first came out but other than that I don't know much. Also what is the average mpg?

I really really really like the WRXs I had one for a while and Loved it.

I also really really like the RX-8, I have briefly driven one at a Mazda zoom-zoom live event, and had a ride along at a local autoX and I have to say that the car handles great!

The thing that kills the RX-8 for me is the gas millage. I too have a daily commute of about 80 miles and in my car I typically get 20 mpg and it hurt like hell when the gas prices spiked. ( I do have a lead foot -yes even when gas is expensive.)

no matter what I think you are going to miss the gas millage of your Ford...

Wrx hands down (next time I'll get a wagon)

Miata. On a more serious note, I realize this isn't a general "what car" thread, but for a daily driver 80+ mile commuter, I'd look at an '02ish BMW 330i, they'll fit into your price range with under 100k miles on them and are much better commuters than either of your choices yet still retain RWD goodness and sporting potential.

RX8.

Nitroracer, I think the last GRM had the WRX buying guide which will answer all of your questions. It was a great article.

GRM, Maybe it's time for an RX-8 buyer's guide?

forgot to provide a comment. on what car.

I've heard that impreza based subaru's are tight in the back seat for a kiddie seat. I also thing getting your daughter in and out of the suicide doors will be a total pain in the butt. I agree with P71. You're going to have to try both.

Might I suggest getting the non turbo subaru as it doesn't need premium.

RWD sucks in the snow. FWD with "four" dedicated snow tires rock, Just see which is faster in ice racing.

4cylndrfury wrote: sorry I have to say it...swap a weinkel into the Subaru = Mazdubaru wRX-8 ...OK carry on with legit conversation

You jest, but hearsay has it the Wankel bolts right up to the Subie transmission...

+1 for WRX. Wagon, man, WAGON! $12,000 will buy you an 02 WRX with way less than 50,000. Ask me how I know!

iceracer wrote: RWD sucks in the snow.

This always bugs me.

Someone comes on and says "I don't like drivetain layout X..." and there will be 8 people who jump on and try to convince the OP that drivetrain X is perfectly fine, and in fact, far superior to what it is they asked for.

This especially happens anytime someone brings up snow and a distaste of FWD. Guess what? Some of us DON'T LIKE FWD IN THE SNOW. I hate FWD in the snow, and there's NOTHING anyone could say to sway me elsewise. Of course I suggest FWD/AWD to people that have never driven in the snow, much as I suggest automatic transmissions to brand new drivers. Doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

^ I was thinking the same thing. I've never had a FWD car (with good/dedicated snow tires) that suffered "extreme understeer". My ACR was an absolute hoot on snowy backroads: certainly no less fun (but definitely different fun) than my wifes e30 on good snows.

I have a friend/co-worker with a 2.5 WRX, and the fuel economy he's getting is pretty terrible... (14-15L/100 in mixed driving) Have you considered a Legacy GT? It's certainly roomier than the WRX.

Nathan

(edit: treed by above two posters, no offense intended to RWD lovers. )

I dont know who all here has actually owned or driven an rx-8 for long distances, but I have personally driven one for a 400 mile drive... and I was struggling to hit 20mpg (easy accelerating and everything)..

I vote WRX... Its a lot more practical, awd, has TORQUE down low, and should get 25-28mpg on the highway.

I have an 04 WRX Sedan that I bought new. It's about to turn 100k miles. I absolutely love it. I have gotten 23.5 mpg on every tankful.

The only mechanical issue that I had was a bad water pump seal around 75k, which I believe was due to using that orange, pet friendly antifreeze.

I drive the car hard and I have had no issues with the transmission. Just don't plan on dumping the clutch and doing any four wheel burnouts.

Getting a rear facing car seat in the back is a bit of a pain, but not impossible. I have to slide the passenger seat pretty far forward to make it work. This makes it difficult if I have my wife with me as there's also not much leg room behind the driver's seat with me driving. I suspect that it will be better when we can switch to a forward facing child seat.

I would buy another WRX and I probably will, but if I were buying a used one, I would avoid the early 2002's. There were a few running changes that can make finding parts a little harder. I think pads and rotors may be different than those for late 2002+.

I have an 03 WRX with a Cobb stage 2 setup (tune, exhaust, stock turbo/intercooler) and upgraded suspension. It averages around 27 on the highway making decent use of the boost and low 20's mpg range during in town driving. We haul 2 forward facing child seats in the rear at all times. Its cramped but not horrible. The hardest issue is avoiding smacking their heads on the edge of the door opening if your try to lift them in and out. Overall the car is a riot and the kids tend to say "Wheee" every time I use the boost.