Should we help our Granddaughter?

In reply to frenchyd :

She's also not going to clean your big ass house every other weekend for $300 a month for the next 6 years. She'll be doing more than just driving to school and back. She'll participate in social events, volunteer, and want to go out with her friends etc.

I think the best idea is to give her your wife's crv and buy your wife a new electric car like you've been wanting to for the past year or so. 

Second best idea is just buy your granddaughter a car outright. 

In reply to yupididit :

Clearly you are wrong. The BEST idea is come here asking for advice then spend 8 pages arguing with everyone who gives you any!

frenchyd said:

STM317 said:

frenchyd said:

$400 a month for insurance?    You convinced me. She can't afford to go to college.  I mean insurance is going to bankrupt her.  New or used if she has to finance a car the bank will require full coverage.  
      It's 3 hours on the buses round trip for a 10 mile trip ( I guessed wrong).  No direct routes,  4 transfers each way. 

  I realize that you have enough money saved to buy a good used car. But  she wasted hers on stuff girls her age want.  ( which doesn't include cars). 
  Then parking passes?   Are they cheaper for used cars than new?   
  Oh she just mentioned she needed to fill up the truck and it cost her $45 for the week.   ( probably went places other than direct to college and back).   At that rate it's $180 a month  for gas.   
      You really should ask  Tuna55 what it costs to own his Bolt.  He's has actual ownership experiance.  
  But brakes don't wear on EV's at least not like ICE's because they have regenerative braking where   They put charge back into the batteries in slowing down instead of wasting that energy in heat.  
One pedal driving is more the norm.  

If you've actually researched and gotten a more accurate estimate for any of these costs, then by all means share them. So far, I see an awful lot of hand waving and hoping and not a lot of actual research or math from you.

There's no question that cost per mile with an EV that's charged at home can be super low. But it's also heavily impacted by location and use case as things like the state enforced registration fees indicate. If she can't charge at home, public charging often rivals gasoline prices, so that erodes a primary cost saver of an EV. And really, we're not trying to compare the cost per mile of a $20k EV with a $20k ICE. We're comparing the cost per mile of a $20k EV with a $5-10k ICE which will have higher maintenance and fueling costs, but lower registration and insurance costs in addition to a much lower purchase price.

And the thing about cost per mile advantages, is that it takes miles driven for that advantage to actually show itself. If you're starting $10-15k more expensive with the EV than a reasonable used ICE like a 10 year old Corolla or Prius, it's going to take a ton of miles driven and maintenance performed before the EV makes more financial sense. And it doesn't sound like your granddaughter is going to be driving a ton of miles in the next couple of years so it's not likely that the EV's potential advantage in cost per mile actually puts it ahead of a reasonable used ICE from a financial perspective. Lets say the EV costs $0.25/mile less than the ICE alternative. That might be generous, but it's a nice round number. That means that her 10 mile commute to school would save her $2.50/day. So after 4000 commutes, (40k miles) the EV's hypothetical cost per mile advantage would actually recoup the $10k price difference from our $10k ICE. If she's on campus 200 days per year, it would only take 200 years!

Obviously, these numbers are all SWAG, and she'll drive more than just the 10 miles to campus. You'd need to actually do real math with real  information to figure out where/when the break even point is. But I bet with her use case, a lower cost per mile with an EV may not be as large of an advantage as you think relative to a less expensive used ICE.

Your supposition of not being able to charge simply does not carry any water.  
    The average American travels 31 miles a day.   She will need to cover 20 miles.  
     The range of the Bolt  is 259 miles. But Tuna 55 reported today his showed 301 miles of range.  That's a 3 year old Bolt with 65,000 miles on it? 
 We know that she used $45 for fuel last week( in my truck which I average about 20 mpg commuting the 23 miles to work.  ) .  
 Those aren't guesses those are facts.  
  Spend a little bit of time reading Tuna 55's post 

      As for the way you calculate costs?   You look at short term.   I look at the longest term possible.   My last truck cost me $100 a month to own over a 20 year period.  
     It's earned  3 times its cost, and effectively built my house.  My MG? I should figure that out. Let's see 60 years ••••    
 
      Hey maybe you're looking at things the wrong way? We are looking at trading her labor to clean our house for the next 6 years  and then she will have a used Chevy Bolt.  In the meantime she gets to use it however she wants.  
  The other option she'll be given is a used Chevy Volt that's just a couple of years older.  In exchange for her labor.  Same deal. 
 

 Maybe with pistons and valves  you'd like that better?  
 

I couldn't care less if it's an EV or an ICE. The big concern from my perspective is that this kid can't afford any $20-25k vehicle and shouldn't be responsible for the associated costs.

I do follow Tuna's ownership thread. But his costs are going to be quite a bit different than your grand daughter's. He's an adult male, in a different state.

- His insurance costs will be different.

- His registration costs will be different.

- His daily miles driven are higher (meaning the cost per mile benefit pays off sooner).

- His climate is different (leading to higher efficiency).

You should not assume that the cost to own and operate a Bolt will be the same for a 16 year old driving very little in MN as it is for a 40 year old commuting farther in it each day in the Coastal Atlantic area.

Nobody here is suggesting that you buy her a used up vehicle, or something that only gets 20mpg like your truck. What is being suggested over and over and over again is that you find a decent, reliable, efficient used car for her (Corolla, Civic, Prius, Volt, etc). These vehicles cost far less up front than a brand new EV, have traditionally been super reliable as they age, and cost very little to fuel. Taking this path she'd save a bunch of money up front, she'd save money on insurance, and she'd save money on registration every year.

If she's only going to drive 10 miles to campus, and then plugs in nightly a used Focus Electric, VW E Golf, or Nissan Leaf will offer more than enough range and can be found in the low teens with reasonable miles and below $10k if higher miles aren't detrimental. Being all-electric, the miles on the odometer shouldn't really matter much right? They're all super simple and need minimal maintenance and last 30 years so might as well get one with a bunch of miles for cheap right?

There are tons of decent options for transportation between an unreliable beater that only gets 20mpg, and a brand new $25k EV that she can't afford. We're suggesting that you consider the vast expanse of options in between those two extremes. It might take some actual research and math on your part if you really want to know for sure how beneficial one option might be over another.

Have you asked her opinion yet??

Didn't think so. 

03Panther said:

Steve_Jones said:
You have posted many times that you can't afford to retire, don't change it now. 

Don't forget, since he often doesn't read and comprehend what others write, and it's never him that's wrong, you can't expect him to remember that!

He'll have some reason your wrong, don't worry. 

I can't afford to retire because I have things I want to do. Read my progress report on the Jaguar XJS for one.  Then I want to build an XKE  and after than my MGuar,  oh and I'll need trailers  too again I'll build my own as I have since the late 1960's. 
     Finally I'd like to replace my Chris Craft Rivera.   OH and there is always stuff to be done on the house.  Hopefully by next week  enough progress will be done  to take pictures.  

yupididit said:

In reply to frenchyd :

She's also not going to clean your big ass house every other weekend for $300 a month for the next 6 years. She'll be doing more than just driving to school and back. She'll participate in social events, volunteer, and want to go out with her friends etc.

I think the best idea is to give her your wife's crv and buy your wife a new electric car like you've been wanting to for the past year or so. 

Second best idea is just buy your granddaughter a car outright. 

      Right now we are lending her my truck, outright. No charge.  
 Is that good enough for you?   
        Then she is always free to buy whatever she can afford. She's being paid a little more than the going rate for house cleaning. And seems to have fun doing it.   Oh, part of her house cleaning duties is to change  the decorations etc.  this weekend they switched to a more fall setting. 

And, there we end. 

That gives you the final word. I think you've gotten the advice you seek (and more) now go forth with that advice and travel the path you see best fit.