pointofdeparture said:
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
Nice looking car, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that get close to $100k.
I think I wouldn't be surprised at almost any price it ends at. It's a lot of car, but it's all a mashup of random parts and nowhere near original which is going to turn a lot of people off. Probably there's a lot of people that like it but few that actually want it and even fewer that want it enough to pay a lot for it. If some of that last group see it, it'll go for a lot. Otherwise, it probably goes for more than any of us can afford but nothing astronomically high. I feel like it could end anywhere from $30k (no sale) to $150k and I wouldn't be too surprised by the result.
I personally think this is a bad time to buy any car, literally any car.
As far as 996s and 986s, the fear and hype over the issues exceeds the actual issues themselves. Original LS1s had oiling issues, the first Z06 LS6s sucked valve springs, and the 7.0Ls all had teething issues too. Amazingly on the internet the LS series of engines is manna from a benevolent creator according to most.
When you buy a Porsche you really are buying a low buck, low production volume exotic of sorts.
I had and sold a 996. It was a great car for a lot of reasons, but I had too many cars. It was worth the most and nicest so I never drove it hard. I drive my other cars like I hate them which is more fun. I kept and still have a 986s.
If I were looking for a Porsche, I'd get a 987.1 Cayman. Yes a 0.1 and not a 0.2. The 0.2 upgrades and tax that goes along with it are hardly worth the cost, unless you are getting a PDK! If you want to row your own gears, the 0.1 is the bargain of all Porsches. I still see nice Cayman S 987.1s for less than $30k. If I add another Porsche to my fleet soon, it will be this car.
All of the "IMS bearing" fear was largely fixed in 2005 with the introduction of the larger IMS bearing that comes in the 987s and 997s. The benefits of direct injection of the 0.2 cars are greatly over exaggerated, and direct injection leads to it's own slew of issues. The 996s and 997s with their larger bores are more susceptible to bore scoring whereas the smaller bore Cayman and Boxster engines are less susceptible (less piston rock on smaller bores), and better rod angles, etc.
I'd get a 987.1 S and pay for a good shop to do a PPI, offer a firm price deducting any major necessary repairs identified in PPI and rock on. I'd look for one with a 6 speed, sport chrono and sport seats too.... If you see one like this for a great price, let me know.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
I personally think this is a bad time to buy any car, literally any car.
As far as 996s and 986s, the fear and hype over the issues exceeds the actual issues themselves. Original LS1s had oiling issues, the first Z06 LS6s sucked valve springs, and the 7.0Ls all had teething issues too. Amazingly on the internet the LS series of engines is manna from a benevolent creator according to most.
When you buy a Porsche you really are buying a low buck, low production volume exotic of sorts.
I had and sold a 996. It was a great car for a lot of reasons, but I had too many cars. It was worth the most and nicest so I never drove it hard. I drive my other cars like I hate them which is more fun. I kept and still have a 986s.
If I were looking for a Porsche, I'd get a 987.1 Cayman. Yes a 0.1 and not a 0.2. The 0.2 upgrades and tax that goes along with it are hardly worth the cost, unless you are getting a PDK! If you want to row your own gears, the 0.1 is the bargain of all Porsches. I still see nice Cayman S 987.1s for less than $30k. If I add another Porsche to my fleet soon, it will be this car.
All of the "IMS bearing" fear was largely fixed in 2005 with the introduction of the larger IMS bearing that comes in the 987s and 997s. The benefits of direct injection of the 0.2 cars are greatly over exaggerated, and direct injection leads to it's own slew of issues. The 996s and 997s with their larger bores are more susceptible to bore scoring whereas the smaller bore Cayman and Boxster engines are less susceptible (less piston rock on smaller bores), and better rod angles, etc.
I'd get a 987.1 S and pay for a good shop to do a PPI, offer a firm price deducting any major necessary repairs identified in PPI and rock on. I'd look for one with a 6 speed, sport chrono and sport seats too.... If you see one like this for a great price, let me know.
The only real problem I have with that is that two years ago 987.1Seses were basically <$20k cars. Now they're $30k...seems like a great way to accidentally lose $10-15k when the market eventually recovers.
It's a matter of taste and preference but IMO the .2 upgrades are worth the cost if it's in the budget. The exterior facelifts are minor but a big improvement, same for the interior plus the .1 interior has some parts that wear incredibly quickly that the .2 fixed. The .2 infotainment system is better and better looking (.1 has the awkward physical phone number pad), and the .2 has a few good options that the .1 never got - dynamic headlights, lsd, pdk, maybe others. Plus a 10% hp/tq bump and an engine with a better oiling system and absolutely zero concern about bearing or cylinder wall issues. I'm sure the di system isn't flawless but I haven't heard of it having any major issues. The only real drawback is that it's impossible to find one in a good color and even harder to find in a good color with good options...which is why I ended up with a 981S.
paddygarcia said:
If you're looking at SC Era cars how about a 912e? They're not cheap any more but I've seen some really nice ones go by for far less than six-cylinder money.
People always bring up the 912E as a bargain way to get into the 911 world, but the reality is that they only made 2,100 of them in 1976. They were never common, a fair number of them were modified back in the day, and they are actually becoming collectable. Some unique parts are truly nonexistent.
If this were 1984...sure, but it's just a lot easier to buy a decent 911 at this point.
If you end up with an air cooled car I have this beautiful set of remotecs sitting here that I don't know what to do with... 
As this was Wally's thread originally I'll drop off with my questions as I've no plans on getting another car until the market corrects. But as the 912E has been mentioned I can't keep quiet. I'd stay clear unless you're a hopeless ACVW nut. Not only were there only a handful made, but they only had 90hp. These cars make an NA Miata look like a Hellcat in a straight line fight. Now, I agree power and straight line performance are far less important than many people thing, but a car that looks like a 74-90 911 that looses to a poor running MGB yet still costs as much as a 987 is a hard sell unless you are a real marque nut. Side note to my side note. A local guy and good acquaintance saw one on Craigs list about a decade ago poorly advertised. My next door neighbor, at that time a pre A 356 owner and now an SC owner, saw the same add and didn't even bother calling. Basically the guy went to look at it and scored an essentially perfect 912E that had sat in a garage for years and years for $3k. HE then cleaned it up, turned round and sold it for north of $10k when that was the going rate for them.
Just recalled Brad Brownell from the defunct Cammed and Tubbed podcast had a 912E that he did an epic cross country journey in. HE wrote several articles about it on Jalopnik three or four years ago if anyone wants to go digging. HE also 'built' (ruined?) a club sport type Boxster. I think he started a thread about it here on GRM years ago before getting the Jalopnik gig and moving the write ups there.
Bradley still has the 912E and still occasionally tweets and writes about it. IIRC he did mention some of the issues with 912E specific parts in the past.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Feel free to add any questions, we seem to be thinking in the same direction.
I have no interest in a 912, and the few I saw were more than I expected them to be. I like Brad, have followed his 912 stories but keep thinking that with all the projects he takes on adding cylinders to it should be on the list. If I stumble onto a low priced AC car it would be a keeper and eventually get all the hideous 80s bodywork I wanted as a kid and the power to go with it
Type Q
SuperDork
7/9/21 9:28 a.m.
I have driven 986 and 987 Boxsters, 996 cabriolets and coupes, 987 Caymans while shopping for my first Porsche over the last 3 years or so, here is what found . I live in a sunny warm climate. I love having being able to put the top down. When I had a Miata, the top was down the majority of the time I was driving it.
1. I am 6 foot 3 and half inches tall. Thanks to the standard sunroof on almost all the 996 coupes, there is not enough headroom for me to find a great driving position. I end up having to tilt the seat back father works for me. I have a back and neck injuries so this matters more than to me than it would for some. I think If I bought one, the seats would have to be changed to lower the seat cushion an inch or or more. Not a problem in a cab with the top up or a hard top installed.
2. The 987 Boxster interior feels more spacious to me, although suspect the dimension are not that different.
3. The Cayman body shape has headroom. I found myself preferring the comparable Boxster because of where I live and how much I enjoy being able to put the top down.
4. All of the have seats that feel too stiff narrow when on my lower back when I first climb in the car. Within two minute they feel perfect.
My advice sit in or drive whatever you are looking to buy for 20 minutes a while first and make sure you'll be comfortable able it it for a long drive.
YMMV
Yes, definitely find a way to at least sit in one before committing to buy. I agree that the 986, and I can only assume the 996 as well, have substantially less headroom than the later cars. That was probably the biggest disappointment in the 986, for a car that was substantially larger than my former NA miata, it felt like it had about the same driving position, complete with staring at the windshield frame and struggling to fit under a hardtop with a helmet on. I guess that was a weird 90s/early 00s german thing, my M roadster had the same issue. When I was cayman shopping and trying to decide between 987 and 981 the indy dealer basically down the street from me happened to have one of each in the showroom at the time. I spent at least a few minutes there hopping back and forth between the two to see how they compared.
In reply to dps214 :
I'm fairly short so headroom is almost never an issue. I've sat in 996s and was very comfortable in them which is one of the reasons I was leaning towards them.
I get lost in the model numbers, but the second generation (2013+?) Cayman has much more interior room than the earlier cars.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
I would highly recommend that, for our part of the country, avoid Porsche wheels that are larger than 18". We need sidewall height. Both tires and wheels are very expensive.
I lost a rear sidewall (20") on my Cayman on the way home from the dealership when I bought the car.
Our roads suck.
For the first generation Cayman (Second generation Boxster, and probably other cars from the same era), it's generally accepted that you don't want 19" wheels, unless the car has PASM.
And PASM is awesome, but not absolutely necessary with 18" wheels, or if you buy a 2013+ car.
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
Are you claiming your roads are worse than Michigan!!!
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Possibly.
But for the record, I bought the car in Pennsylvania, and I don't know exactly where I bubbled the sidewall.
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
I was a bit surprised how many 19" wheels are out there. I like a bit more sidewall even on good roads
There's a 996 convertible with 249000 at $12000 right now. Part of me is tempted just for the road trip back from LA.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
That seems to be the way with so many Porsche engines over the years. The 2.7's died due to the thermal reactors they used before catalytic convertors. The 3.0L SC's had the tensioner and CIS pop off valve issues, the 3.2L Carrara’s had the head stud issues. The M96 engines have the RMS bearing issue. With all these engines, once the known, relatively cheap parts were updated, replaced, and or deleted these engines will regularly go 1/4 million miles or more with nothing but regular maintenance.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
What's the condition of the interior like and does it come with the hardtop? IIRC they all originally had the hardtop, but the tops get "lost".
The interiors on 996s aren't exactly the most durable product ever to come out of Germany, and trying to fix a grotty interior on one of these isn't going to be cheap.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
Every E36 M3ty car I've had has passed 250 so I'm not surprised this one looks good
Tim: The interior looks good, and it's not tan. No mention of a hardtop but i don't think I'd use it anyway.
In reply to Wally (Forum Supporter) :
Fair enough. That said, I found the hardtop very useful when driving longer distances as it quietens the car down somewhat. Of course I drove mine in winter also - no salt on the road in NV - and then the hardtop was really useful.
FWIW 996 hardtops are rare but not super expensive. I don't see them super often but I feel like every time I do see one they're asking $1000 or less. Made me jealous back when I was trying to find a reasonably priced boxster hardtop. Would probably be a good thing to have around for road trips - better noise and heat insulation, more secure, arguably safer, etc.
Edit: there's currently multiple on fb marketplace for $500-1000, the most expensive one is $1200.
In reply to BoxheadTim :
Wait, what? All 996 drop tops came with a hard top? REally, that's cool. What about 997's?
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
My understanding is that they were standard equipment at least up to and including 2002 on the 996 (mine was a 2001, and it did have the hardtop). Apparently there was a "hardtop delete" option though that knocked a few bucks off the price.
Later ones had the hardtop as a fairly pricey option - not sure if that goes for the 997s also, but I would think it does as I can't quite see Porsche going back from optional hardtop to standard hardtop.
