1 2
FordGT40
FordGT40 New Reader
2/25/14 1:22 p.m.

I have a lightly modded (bolt-ons, sub-frame connectors, shocks, springs,tires, etc) '95 Mustang GT that I want to use for occasional track days and weekend pleasure drives. I have done a few track days already and the weakest part of the car, other than the driver, definitely seems to be the brakes. I am very confused by all of the internet fights over the subject on the various Mustang forums. My budget is not unlimited so I'm not going to spend $2500 to upgrade my brakes at this point. I can stick with my current rotors (11") and get a set of the '99-04 PBR dual piston calipers really cheap, but I don't really know how much difference that would make. Anyone have any experience with such a swap? Most people say go straight to the 13" Cobra setup, but they are not easy to find used, though the aftermarket has plenty of "Cobra style" kits starting around $700 or so. I can afford that but could get the PBR calipers for around $60 for the pair. Again, I'm just looking for a good solid car to have fun in, not a race car. I guess I'm really just trying to find out if anyone has any first hand knowledge of the PBR swap and how much it helps. Thanks for any advice.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
2/25/14 1:33 p.m.

What's wrong with the brakes?

You don't like the feel? Are you getting fade? Have you flushed the fluid for fresh?

I'd suspect fresh fluid, lines, ducting and TRUE track-worthy pads would fix your issues. If not, then you need to step up to the larger heat sink. Although fixed calipers definitely have a better feel than the factor sliding calipers.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/25/14 1:40 p.m.
z31maniac wrote: What's wrong with the brakes? You don't like the feel? Are you getting fade? Have you flushed the fluid for fresh? I'd suspect fresh fluid, lines, ducting and TRUE track-worthy pads would fix your issues. If not, then you need to step up to the larger heat sink. Although fixed calipers definitely have a better feel than the factor sliding calipers.

I was going to suggest the same thing.

If you are on street tires, good fluid and good pads (race type pads) are all you need.

We lemons raced a 78 Malibu with a chevy 350. That car could haul the mail! We ran stock camaro front rotors with Hawk Black pads (not even the most aggressive pads). In the rear the car had drum brakes with some porterfield shoes.

That was the BEST stopping car I ever owned.

No big rotors, nothing fancy, single piston calipers in the front with drums out back.

Good fluid, good pads = plenty capable on track unless you have 600+ hp.

Rob R.

pres589
pres589 UltraDork
2/25/14 1:46 p.m.

Do the above. If you're still not happy, you can gin up a "kit" using reman Cobra-type calipers and rotors and braided brake lines for less than the all-in-one-box kits out there. Maybe $400 using braided flex lines.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/25/14 2:07 p.m.

I'll agree. try the fluid and pads first - it's relatively cheap and makes a HUGE improvement. If you feel skippy, do the lines. If it still seems woefully inadequate, put together a DIY Cobra kit and sell the old braided lines on craigslist to recoup a little beer money.

FordGT40
FordGT40 New Reader
2/25/14 2:32 p.m.

Thanks for the comments. I do have fresh fluid and Hawk brake pads installed but I honestly couldn't tell a lot of difference from stock with just that being done. I did get some fade at my last track day but the pedal feels firm, the biggest thing I don't like about them is they just don't seem to slow the car quick enough. It may be that I just don't know what they should feel like. My daily driver and autocross car is a Miata so that may be part of the problem.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/25/14 3:15 p.m.

I ran the 99-04 setup with the PBR calipers on my 89 LX when I did the 5-lug conversion on it. With Hawk HPS pads, fresh Valvoline fluid, and stainless lines, I never had any fade or issues at track days. Granted, I don't push super-hard, I'm probably at 8 tenths, and the car is lighter than your SN95, but I think a caliper swap and some stainless lines would probably help a fair bit without you having to spend too much.

But if you want to spend money, there's always the Cobra stuff with 13" front rotors and vented rears.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg MegaDork
2/25/14 3:17 p.m.

Is the fluid high temp and which Hawk pads?

My 86 Mustang has stock SN95 brakes with good pads and silicone fluid, granted it is lighter but it stops great

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
2/25/14 3:34 p.m.

Check getting the brake parts for a cobra directly from Rock Auto or Advance Auto (or the like)

Reman front calipers are $100ish (with bracket), Rotors aren't too horrible at about $55ish, Master is $110(not sure if different). (thats advances prices, RockAuto might be cheaper)

Rears IIRC is mostly just a bracket to change rotor size.

Do some looking, you should be able to get reman parts for not too horrible a price and might be able to beat the kits pricing by a decent margin.

I understand finding used might be difficult, but its not really what I would call rare and hard to get. Most performance shops have a wicked markup on brake stuff.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/26/14 8:00 a.m.
aussiesmg wrote: Is the fluid high temp and which Hawk pads? My 86 Mustang has stock SN95 brakes with good pads and silicone fluid, granted it is lighter but it stops great

Yea, which pads? If HPS or HP+, I don't see them working awesome for track duty on the front of a quick car.

Black or Blue minimum. Or one of their newer offerings. The other pads (Hp+ or HPS)are like slightly better stock pads.

Rob R.

FordGT40
FordGT40 New Reader
2/26/14 8:15 a.m.

Sorry, my Hawks are the HP+

HappyAndy
HappyAndy SuperDork
2/26/14 8:16 a.m.

How old are the rubber brake hoses?

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
2/26/14 8:52 a.m.
FordGT40 wrote: Sorry, my Hawks are the HP+

A car with that much weight/HP really needs a TRUE track pad, not a "dual-duty" pad. Although, ducting them would help, I'd duct them and run different pads.

I'm a big fan of the Carbotech's.

jimbbski
jimbbski HalfDork
2/26/14 8:58 a.m.

I have used Hawk on my Mustang and they were OK, the PF pads were much better but of course more costly. You do get what you pay for. Do not use the Hawk Black's. They are hard on the rotors. The blues are better. Carbotech make good pads but I have not used them myself.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/26/14 9:03 a.m.

Just to be clear, the Hawk Black is just a slightly less agressive compound than the Blues.

The Carbotech pads can have strange deposition issues when run for a long stint (2 hours +). Lots of people in the Chump / Lemons community stopped running one of the carbotech compounds.

That being said, I run Hawk Blue or Black on my RX7 turbo, 78 Malibu, and 1980 RX7. Never had a problem or a complaint. However, I have not tried any other pads (because they work for me and have no reason to change).

Rob R.

FordGT40
FordGT40 New Reader
2/26/14 10:01 a.m.

My brake lines are the original ones from the factory. They still look to be in good shape, the car has always been garaged and has just over 40k on the odometer. I know that rubber degrades with time though and I am definitely going to upgrade to braided lines. I really appreciate all of the help and opinions.

Will
Will Dork
2/27/14 4:55 p.m.

It's not a Mustang, but I have experience with the stock single piston, dual piston GT, dual piston Cobra, and 4-piston Brembo calipers on MN12 Thunderbirds. I used all those setups at one point or another, and the GT setup didn't seem to be much improvement over the stock caliper, and wasn't worth the trouble. The Cobra setup was noticeably better. The fixed Brembo caliper was waaaay better, and is the only one that doesn't warp the rotors inside of 10k miles.

Some cars do great with just new pads and fluid, as others have said. Others actually can benefit from different calipers and larger rotors.

yamaha
yamaha UltimaDork
2/27/14 6:19 p.m.

The used Cobra brakes are difficult to find because all of us Taurus people have snatched them up......we pass them around for cheap as well. I paid $250 shipped for my setup.

You shouldn't need them really, as they just possess greater thermal capacity to your already dual pistons.

gofastbobby
gofastbobby Reader
2/27/14 7:10 p.m.

I have an sn95 mustang. It doesnt stop well. I autocross it, fade isn't much of an issue. I just need it to not lock up the front and stop faster.

Thank you all for the input, it's very helpful.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
2/28/14 8:27 a.m.
Will wrote: The fixed Brembo caliper was waaaay better, and is the only one that doesn't warp the rotors inside of 10k miles.

I'm curious how the style of caliper has anything to do with "Warping" the rotor? I won't post the much referred to Stoptech article that says you don't warp rotors, but this is a new one.

The only real negative I've read about single-piston calipers is the flex causing pad taper and poor feel.

novaderrik
novaderrik PowerDork
2/28/14 11:21 a.m.

i'd do the Cobra swap- price things out locally and i bet it won't be too expensive.

yamaha
yamaha UltimaDork
2/28/14 11:50 a.m.

In reply to novaderrik:

The calipers can be somewhat salty, IIRC, there is a price difference between the "SVT" calipers and the Mach 1 calipers......they're both the same damn caliper, just the svt version was powdercoated/painted red.

Will
Will Dork
2/28/14 7:38 p.m.
z31maniac wrote:
Will wrote: The fixed Brembo caliper was waaaay better, and is the only one that doesn't warp the rotors inside of 10k miles.
I'm curious how the style of caliper has anything to do with "Warping" the rotor? I won't post the much referred to Stoptech article that says you don't warp rotors, but this is a new one. The only real negative I've read about single-piston calipers is the flex causing pad taper and poor feel.

I've read the Stoptech article. I've also had a Brembo engineer tell me to my face that the MN12 platform in particular was notorious for warping rotors. That was before he knew I owned one. Who to believe?

Whether it's warped rotors or uneven pad transfer, I can say that after many miles with the fixed Brembo caliper, I don't get the steering wheel shimmy I got after fewer miles on new rotors with floating calipers.

chknhwk
chknhwk HalfDork
3/4/14 3:18 a.m.
FordGT40 wrote: My brake lines are the original ones from the factory. They still look to be in good shape, the car has always been garaged and has just over 40k on the odometer. I know that rubber degrades with time though and I am definitely going to upgrade to braided lines. I really appreciate all of the help and opinions.

GET SS BRAKE LINES.
I don't know much about the PBR/stock rotor combo but I can tell you the 13" Cobra setup is a great OEM package. IMO if you can afford it, spring for it because chances are you may never need another upgrade.
Ditto on good brake pads.

Enyar
Enyar HalfDork
3/4/14 9:09 a.m.

If I remember correctly, the 13" Cobra setup requires 17" wheels so keep that in mind.

1 2
Our Preferred Partners
kkQYNonuVh4e3HfOKrcKUBtcYLNzfz7g6qmxZOFNriaLpmXFZKNOS2wTtKU0QG3b