Sorry, another...........E92 M3?

These are getting surprisingly affordable, what are the issues? I know about the rod bearings and would be looking for a low mileage example and doing oil analysis religiously. And basically just know at some point down the road, it's going to need the rod bearings replaced (or at least keep it in the budget).

The DCT transmission seems to be pretty bulletproof from what I've read. And that V8 sounds glorious uncorked.

I know on the occasion that I do track it, it's going to eat gas, tires, and brakes like Mama June at Las Vegas buffet.....................what else do I need to know?

My buddy who has the 340i now had one with comp package and autocrossed it. It does sound good, you have to really rev the piss out of it and if the DCT does wear out its a 13,000 dollar replacement (his was DCT and he got rid of it partially for that reason). It's actually not a very fun daily driver because of how the engine makes power it has a very similar powerband just lower to a GT350

I love my friends. But his also has a vortech blower on it so that may sway opinions. Its a fun daily but it can be a handful at autocross. 

I'm not a fan.  No torque but V8 gas mileage.  Like 12mpg around town if you're lucky.  Heavy cars.  Rod bearing issues.

They are viciously fast around a track.

docwyte said:

I'm not a fan.  No torque but V8 gas mileage.  Like 12mpg around town if you're lucky.  Heavy cars.  Rod bearing issues.

I've actually spent some time, just street time, in the wheel behind a DCT car, it still felt plenty quick to me.

I've DD'd a BRZ for the last 3+ years................................that car has half the tq and only 800lbs lighter.

More concerned with any other potential reliability or BMW gotchas like on previous cars. Cooling systems, bushings, window regulators, etc.

Robbie said:

They are viciously fast around a track.

They're quick, but it's surprisingly how rapidly things change now a days.  Would you expect a FoRS, V6 Camaro, Cayman/Boxster S (981), Mustang GT to be quicker?  :)

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-20062017-historical-data-every-lap-time-every-car-feature

Snrub said:

Robbie said:

They are viciously fast around a track.

They're quick, but it's surprisingly how rapidly things change now a days.  Would you expect a FoRS, V6 Camaro, Cayman/Boxster S (981), Mustang GT to be quicker?  :)

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-20062017-historical-data-every-lap-time-every-car-feature

Take that same 2008 M3, think about sticky tires and how much they have changed in the last DECADE, and put it on some modern Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s (like that are on the FoRS)...............I bet that lap time would fall noticeably.

In reply to z31maniac :

Better tires would probably help, but they're still 3700lb cars with less than 300 ft-lbs at the crank when they were new. They make respectable hp, but you really have to spin it to get there. Like many older vehicles, the modern stuff has probably eclipsed the e92, but as you've found out with your other potential purchases, it's not all about numbers. A fun street car needs to make you excited behind the wheel. They're more about smiles/mile than outright numbers so you'll have to get your hands on one and see how it makes you feel.

In a lot of ways, it seems like a larger, heavier, more powerful and luxurious Miata. Should be content to putter around town for daily stuff but I'd think you'll have to keep the revs up to stay in the power band which means a decent amount of shifting. If you like the "sportiness" of a Miata, then that might work for you. If you liked the grunt of the Camaro 1LE, that had the power on tap anywhere and any time then you might be disappointed. It's very subjective.

STM317 said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Better tires would probably help, but they're still 3700lb cars with less than 300 ft-lbs at the crank when they were new. They make respectable hp, but you really have to spin it to get there. Like many older vehicles, the modern stuff has probably eclipsed the e92, but as you've found out with your other potential purchases, it's not all about numbers. A fun street car needs to make you excited behind the wheel. They're more about smiles/mile than outright numbers so you'll have to get your hands on one and see how it makes you feel.

In a lot of ways, it seems like a larger, heavier, more powerful and luxurious Miata. Should be content to putter around town for daily stuff but I'd think you'll have to keep the revs up to stay in the power band which means a decent amount of shifting. If you like the "sportiness" of a Miata, then that might work for you. If you liked the grunt of the Camaro 1LE, that had the power on tap anywhere and any time then you might be disappointed. It's very subjective.

Very good points! I also just saw at my local dealer a 2015 M4, DCT, only 20k miles, advertised for only a few thousand more than MSRP on that SS 1LE. 

That + the longest extended warranty possible could also be interesting.

z31maniac said:

Snrub said:

Robbie said:

They are viciously fast around a track.

They're quick, but it's surprisingly how rapidly things change now a days.  Would you expect a FoRS, V6 Camaro, Cayman/Boxster S (981), Mustang GT to be quicker?  :)

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-20062017-historical-data-every-lap-time-every-car-feature

Take that same 2008 M3, think about sticky tires and how much they have changed in the last DECADE, and put it on some modern Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s (like that are on the FoRS)...............I bet that lap time would fall noticeably.

Agreed, tires probably account for much or all of the delta between the M3 and the FoRS.  Note the 2009 M3 Coupe was running on Cup + tires.  The 2008 M3 was running PS2s, I don't suspect those tires are appreciably different than those shod by the others vehicles I mentioned.  ;)  For the less powerful examples, one has to assume the cause of the delta is chassis/suspension.

If you want an awesome engine and something that has a nice blend of attributes for daily driving, it could be a winner.  I have not driven it, I have been on the track with them.  I don't know if the suspension is great for track work although it's obviously still quite good.  It depends what you're looking for.

z31maniac said:

More concerned with any other potential reliability or BMW gotchas like on previous cars. Cooling systems, bushings, window regulators, etc.

It's a precision-engineered German car... which means that 10 years from now, the new models will still have the same weaknesses that the ones from 10 years ago had.

In reply to Duke :

Only, with a BMW, those weaknesses seem to grow exponentially with each iteration. 

I instructed a fast student in an E90 M3 DCT.  It was one of the best cars on track I've ever driven.  Engine was awesome, transmission was good, brakes and suspension were good.  I was not at race pace but it revealed no weaknesses on track.

Snrub said:

z31maniac said:

Snrub said:

Robbie said:

They are viciously fast around a track.

They're quick, but it's surprisingly how rapidly things change now a days.  Would you expect a FoRS, V6 Camaro, Cayman/Boxster S (981), Mustang GT to be quicker?  :)

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-20062017-historical-data-every-lap-time-every-car-feature

Take that same 2008 M3, think about sticky tires and how much they have changed in the last DECADE, and put it on some modern Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s (like that are on the FoRS)...............I bet that lap time would fall noticeably.

Agreed, tires probably account for much or all of the delta between the M3 and the FoRS.  Note the 2009 M3 Coupe was running on Cup + tires.  The 2008 M3 was running PS2s, I don't suspect those tires are appreciably different than those shod by the others vehicles I mentioned.  ;)  For the less powerful examples, one has to assume the cause of the delta is chassis/suspension.

 

If you want an awesome engine and something that has a nice blend of attributes for daily driving, it could be a winner.  I have not driven it, I have been on the track with them.  I don't know if the suspension is great for track work although it's obviously still quite good.  It depends what you're looking for.

I think you pretty much just nailed it. 

"If you want an awesome engine and something that has a nice blend of attributes for daily driving, it could be a winner."

I think you just succinctly explained what I'm trying to find!

it has a very similar powerband just lower to a GT350

And the same track times as a base v8 mustang of the previous generation..comparo link 

I agree that a car like this has to grab you on subjective measures. It's the same weight as a 3000GT VR-4 that everyone said was morbidly obese for a sporty car a decade before. If you don't find it to be a far better street car than track car, then.. you can probably find a better track car for the same money, and where does that leave you? I guess go find out if you love it or not! It's a neat car but without subjective points in its favor it loses out in objective measures. 

What about the ATS-V's?

Linky broken

But I do remember that test, 2011 models I think?

I'm trying to get accurate prices on the rod bearing stuff, but so far two different dealers couldn't be further apart. 

Jaynen said:

What about the ATS-V's?

I don't like the way look, inside or out. 

Sound amazing, seem pretty robust.  Lots of guys on the s2000 forum moved into them due to similar powerband and nice control feel.  Definitely worth a drive. CarMax?

In addition to rod bearings, another common issue seems to be throttle actuators. Which sound like $$$ and basically a consumable.

Sonolin said:

In addition to rod bearings, another common issue seems to be throttle actuators. Which sound like $$$ and basically a consumable.

Yeah, I've read about those as well. The shop I talked to said they don't happen nearly as often as on the V10 in the M5. 

A buddy of mine just bought one from, I presume, some sort of oil dude from Calgary who found children.  All sorts of swanky bits and pieces from whatever company build swanky go-fast bits for BMW.  He loves fast kraut stuff.  When I met him, he had an ?R32? Golf with a bunch of tuning and a huge turbo pushing 300+ horses.  Anyway, he took me for a ride in the M3, and it felt like a lot of fun.  He smacked my head into the seat a couple of times.  Never dropped below 4000rpm cruising, either.

He lifted it up in his garage, and installed new rod bearings this fall.  Some sort of properly built American rod shells, and real ARP bolts, instead of the torque to failure German stuff.  It didn't seem terribly tough- He got it to run again, and he is an electrical engineer...

I spoke with a well reviewed/respected indie shop in my area yesterday. 

Approx $1700 in labor and parts.........$1050 in labor, the rest in parts and tax.