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NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
3/14/16 10:12 a.m.

Much like "Never store a battery on concrete surface" I have grown up with the rule that says "A crankshaft must be stored standing up"

I have a hard time seeing the logic in this one. Cranks are a pretty massive chunk of steel, an anything that can take the loads of an explosion does not seem likely to warp if left laying on its side. Or for that matter, why would it warp LESS standing on end?

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UltraDork
3/14/16 10:47 a.m.

I've never stored a crank hanging, or on end. Typically in a box with a lot of paper, but storage is on its side. Never had an issue.

TRD cranks as they came from the supplier

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
3/14/16 10:54 a.m.

Maybe if you stored it for a hundred years.

Or, if you have lot of cranks, standing on end takes up less space.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
3/14/16 10:54 a.m.

We should perform a test. Does anyone have a long crank shaft sitting about that could be sacrificed?

First, what are the concerns? Is it deformation?

Second, measure how 'on axis' the bearing surfaces are with regards to each other.

Third, Mount it cantilever to the wall for a year, and repeat the measurement.

itsarebuild
itsarebuild GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/14/16 12:23 p.m.

I have a hard time beliving it would ever deform. And honestly if it was possible to reform it would seem more likely in the standing on end position as the crank isn't exactly a column shape with the offsets required for Pistons. Maybe the rule is for some other reason like keeping sediment or condensate with sediment from damaging the bearing surfaces?

ultraclyde
ultraclyde UberDork
3/14/16 12:37 p.m.

When I worked at Advance Auto it was company policy to always store the boxed cranks we had on end, but that doesn't mean it really mattered scientifically.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Reader
3/14/16 1:00 p.m.

I've always stored my cranks on end, but that doesn't mean anything. They just take up less space that way, and they can't roll around on you.

snailmont5oh
snailmont5oh Reader
3/14/16 1:23 p.m.

The engine stores it horizontally.

On edit: Unless it happens to be a lawnmower.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
3/14/16 1:32 p.m.

In reply to snailmont5oh:

Yes but the bearings are being supported.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/14/16 1:35 p.m.

We stored 6' long diesel boat engine cranks standing up because they would bend over time.

Larger engines than that have little electric drives that slowly rotate the engine to prevent the crank from warping in the block. It's called turning gear (real creative on the name aren't they.) It is also used on turbines.

It is a thing.

Now, will it effect our "little" engines. I doubt it.

hhaase
hhaase New Reader
3/14/16 5:43 p.m.

It's likely going to vary from crank to crank. A short little boxer 4cyl flat plane crank is probably much less at risk than a big old straight-8 with massive counterweights.

chiodos
chiodos Dork
3/14/16 6:41 p.m.

Curious about this as well, the shop i worked at always stored them upright, some still standing up right 25 years later. Guess its one of those "better safe than sorry" trying to find out type of things.

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand Dork
3/14/16 8:07 p.m.
hhaase wrote: It's likely going to vary from crank to crank. A short little boxer 4cyl flat plane crank is probably much less at risk than a big old straight-8 with massive counterweights.

Nah, you need to get a lot bigger before cast iron is going to plastically deform under its own weight. I suspect there's actually more bending load on the bottom rod journal when it's stored on end than there is on any part of it stored flat, actually.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
3/14/16 9:16 p.m.

What about the battery on concrete part? Ive heard that but it doesnt make sense other than protecting the concrete from battery acid.

atm92484
atm92484 Reader
3/14/16 9:50 p.m.

Don't know about batteries but once I kept a fire extinguisher on the garage floor. It was dead in 6 months. The other one I bought at the exact same time that had the same date is still charged but it spent its life on the wall.

M2Pilot
M2Pilot HalfDork
3/14/16 10:05 p.m.

Perhaps old style batteries (pre plastic cases) were affected by storing on concrete. My experience with modern batteries is that it makes no difference.

chiodos
chiodos Dork
3/14/16 10:38 p.m.

Supposedly batterys discharge on concrete. Its not true but my local interstate battery has signs in the back stating "do not store batterys on concrete" i dont bother trying to argue with them. Company policy i suppose.

ncjay
ncjay Dork
3/15/16 4:04 a.m.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper UltimaDork
3/15/16 4:56 a.m.

Stored in a rack, they aren't going to fall over or fall off something and land on the concrete floor and get damaged. So I suspect that is the fundamental basis of the storage concern.

We had turning gears on our turbines as well. Was to prevent bearing damage, namely metal transfer. Nothing more.

We had no problems with storing the ~40' long Fairbanks Morse diesel crankshafts horizontally.

44Dwarf
44Dwarf UltraDork
3/15/16 6:13 a.m.
M2Pilot wrote: Perhaps old style batteries (pre plastic cases) were affected by storing on concrete. My experience with modern batteries is that it makes no difference.

Old timers told me this was a hold over from the tar and cloth case days that the concrete would help rot the case by holding moisture on both sides it would soften and leak.

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 Reader
3/15/16 7:01 a.m.

I've had a TR6 crankshaft stored on it's side for about 25 years and that engine is going to be rebuilt soon. I'll let you know.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
3/15/16 7:38 a.m.

I would never, ever store a crank standing upright on the ground.

Because I would surely knock it over.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
3/15/16 7:50 a.m.

In reply to alfadriver:

That's what I was thinking. I don't wear my PPE around the garage every time.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
3/15/16 9:04 a.m.
44Dwarf wrote:
M2Pilot wrote: Perhaps old style batteries (pre plastic cases) were affected by storing on concrete. My experience with modern batteries is that it makes no difference.
Old timers told me this was a hold over from the tar and cloth case days that the concrete would help rot the case by holding moisture on both sides it would soften and leak.

You also don't want to spill battery acid on concrete, I've heard it was more a case of the old tar cases just being leaky in general.

wae
wae Dork
3/18/16 4:52 p.m.

I just picked up my block, head, and crank from the machine shop tonight and I asked the guy about this. The whole shop was full of cranks standing on their ends and he swore that storing them sideways would warp them. When I pressed a little he said that he didn't think anyone had ever actually measured it but the guy that has been doing it for 40 years said so.

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