Test Drives, and "The Sickness"

Are the later NB headlights a direct swap into the older NBs?

I think you have to swap the front bumper cover as well but not totally sure. The early ones look better anyway so no reason to swap.

EvanB wrote: I think you have to swap the front bumper cover as well but not totally sure. The early ones look better anyway so no reason to swap.

The early bumper looks better, but i like the later lights better dammit!

Oh, and email me details on the one in columbus!

lizard wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Is there a list somewhere of all the different NB variants? I had no idea a "performance package" existed.

http://www.miata.net/faq/

Holy crap... so i guess yesterday i drove a "Touring Edition."

And bummer... part of the appeal of a Miata was so i could buy a bunch of cool little things from Rev9. Buuutttt... they don't really have much for the NB.

Sadface.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

EvanB wrote: I think you have to swap the front bumper cover as well but not totally sure. The early ones look better anyway so no reason to swap.

The early bumper looks better, but i like the later lights better dammit! Oh, and email me details on the one in columbus!

I'll get the details on it tomorrow and let you know.

Should have jumped on this earlier - I didn't know it was a Miata thread :)

NA vs NB: the whole "NA is a better Miata, NB is a better car" thing is funny, but ever notice how all the NA guys are trying to stuff as much of an NB under their car as possible? In this particular comparison, you drove a leather package car with high miles and probably blown-out suspension against a 2000 Sport package. The 1999-00 Sport cars had what is quite possibly the best stock suspension of all Miatas, and I believe they're the hot ticket in their appropriate stock autox class. Not sure on that, I don't follow SCCA too closely. But basically, you're comparing the best stock chassis in barely-worn trim to a shagged out car. So yeah, the NB would feel better

You don't really want a 6-speed. Let's just leave it at that. Even if you buy an MSM, I'd recommend pulling the 6-speed and the stock wheels and replace them with a 5-speed and a set of 15" wheels. It's not hard to find a wheel that will fit over the Sport brakes, by the way.

You can fit the 2001-05 headlights to a 1999-00 without changing the bumper. It's not a perfect fit in the inside corner, but it's good enough that almost nobody will notice unless you point it out. We have a 1999 that's gone the other way and wears a 2005 nose. The 2001-05 lights do work a whole lot better.

If you want a full rundown on packages and yearly changes from 1990-05, grab a copy of Find It, Fix It, Trick It.

Keith does have an excellent repair/mod book. I had one that I gave away with the car. A friend (codriver) has one and between basic maintenance and STR prep, I think we went through 2/3 of the book in the last 6 months :)

The 99 sport is the C-stock package to have. Lightest NB with the stiffest springs. If you want to mod w/o boosting, the later gen models with the VVT can make stupid (relative) power. ~160whp in CSP form.

Definitely look for a torsen, although doing a swap isn't that hard. The 4.3 diffs are the SM diff of choice, so expensive... I put a 3.9 in mine when I blew up the stock diff and it helps keep the revs down on the highway. On that note, be careful of the stock clutch on some of the later NBs. If you find one with the factory clutch chatter... run. The 2003 NB had 4 revisions to the stock clutch. I believe other years suffered as well.

As far as the S2K, I see them all the time on CL/ auto trader here... 00-02 AP1 with 85k-100k miles for about 10k. Sometimes with mods. Even saw one with a hardtop in that price range. I wouldn't rule them out of your search completely, they really are an awesome car. Esp. if you want a car that's fast with ~zero effort.

Regarding my legs-in-a-coffin comment.. the S2K has an unusually high door sill and the dashboard is unusually close to my knees. Its not uncomfortable by any means, but more cramped than a NB. The S2K is very comfortable on long trips. I picked mine up from Florida 3 weeks ago. I put ~1100 miles on it in the first 2 days getting back here.

The 2001+ clutch problem isn't a big deal. Get the flywheel machined. You can see the bad surface on them. Either that or put on decent aftermarket parts and your problem is solved. So it's a bit more work but not a run away kind of problem in my mind.

If you are contemplating boxsters or an s2000, why not an early NC miata? Newer, easier to maintain and daily drive, big enough for road trip duty. They can be had for ~12-15k.

Keith wrote: The 2001+ clutch problem isn't a big deal. Get the flywheel machined. You can see the bad surface on them. Either that or put on decent aftermarket parts and your problem is solved. So it's a bit more work but not a run away kind of problem in my mind.

It can lead to other broken parts if you try and race it/drive it hard that way. I know this from experience. That's how I assploded the diff on the '03 I had. I think it probably killed the diff and motor mounts also.

sanman wrote: If you are contemplating boxsters or an s2000, why not an early NC miata? Newer, easier to maintain and daily drive, big enough for road trip duty. They can be had for ~12-15k.

Don't like them. I'm sure they drive well, but i just can't get past the looks and the somewhat funky-to-me interior.

Oh, and thanks Keith!!

I'm a little confused as to whether or not i really drove a Sport Package, or a Touring Package. It only had 14" wheels.

I'm going to find that book now.

you need this: http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/2434951893.html

Do you have emissions inspections in IN? If not*, I can make you a screaming deal on an '01 SE (BRG/tan/tan) with high miles, some go-fast goodies and a few niggles to sort out.

It took me and my better half on a week-and-a-half road trip a couple years ago.

PM me if you're interested.

*It has a persistent CEL that I'm not motivated to fix.

alex wrote: Do you have emissions inspections in IN? If not*, I can make you a screaming deal on an '01 SE (BRG/tan/tan) with high miles, some go-fast goodies and a few niggles to sort out. It took me and my better half on a week-and-a-half road trip a couple years ago. PM me if you're interested. *It has a persistent CEL that I'm not motivated to fix.

No emissions, no inspection in this great state.

That's my second LEAST favorite color combo, but if the price is right, the price is right.

Maybe I should just get a PO box in Indy.

alex wrote: Maybe I should just get a PO box in Indy.

They don't hassle me for the MX6, so plainly, anything goes lol.

Hell, the MX6 even has a salvage title, i had no problems registering or insuring it.

I appreciate your in-depth replies, by the way!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

alex wrote: Do you have emissions inspections in IN? If not*, I can make you a screaming deal on an '01 SE (BRG/tan/tan) with high miles, some go-fast goodies and a few niggles to sort out. It took me and my better half on a week-and-a-half road trip a couple years ago. PM me if you're interested. *It has a persistent CEL that I'm not motivated to fix.

No emissions, no inspection in this great state. That's my second LEAST favorite color combo, but if the price is right, the price is right.

Well, Lake county does have emissions, but the other 91 counties are just about anything goes.

What exactly is this thing?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=299491243&dealer_id=1390850&car_year=2000&model=MIATA&pager.offset=25&search_lang=en&start_year=1981&scarid=295824740&search_type=both&distance=50&rdm=1308337353645&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2012&showZipError=n&dma=CHICAGO_C1&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&first_record=26&transmission=Manual&default_sort=priceASC&address=60601&sort_type=priceASC&make=MAZDA&num_records=25&seller_type=b&cardist=4&standard=false

What's the likelyhood that this has a Torsen?

How much faster are the later VVT cars, really? Anything worth seeking out?

Are the 99-00s really the best suspension? Did the 99-00s with the 14" wheels (Touring Edition?) ever come with the Torsen?

And of course, the good question: What are the ESSENTIAL mods to these cars? I'm already planning on the FM V-Maxx Stage 2 upgrade. (Assuming someone can tell me that they're comfy enough on the street)

It's not so much that the 1999-00 had the best suspension overall - it was just the combination of parts used in the Sport package. I've heard it said that the MSM shared the same suspension, although I've never tried to confirm it.

That purple 2000 is the SE for that year. So it'll definitely have a Torsen. I don't think Mazda ever built a six-speed with an open diff, actually.

The 2001 refresh brought around a stiffer chassis, much better headlights and some interior tweaks such as the "surfboard" seats. The engine didn't make a lot more power, but it does run cleaner so the California cars aren't saddled with an extra cat.

As far as I can tell from my research, the Torsen was a standalone option in 1999-00 on manual transmission cars. So there's no definite tell on if the car has one. You can dig through the other options to tell if it probably has one or you can test-drive.

Keith wrote: It's not so much that the 1999-00 had the best suspension overall - it was just the combination of parts used in the Sport package. I've heard it said that the MSM shared the same suspension, although I've never tried to confirm it. That purple 2000 is the SE for that year. So it'll definitely have a Torsen. I don't think Mazda ever built a six-speed with an open diff, actually. The 2001 refresh brought around a stiffer chassis, much better headlights and some interior tweaks such as the "surfboard" seats. The engine didn't make a lot more power, but it does run cleaner so the California cars aren't saddled with an extra cat. As far as I can tell from my research, the Torsen was a standalone option in 1999-00 on manual transmission cars. So there's no definite tell on if the car has one. You can dig through the other options or you can test-drive.

Thanks Keith! Is that car a decent buy for say... $6500 if i talk them down? Interior could use cleaning, and the front lip is trashed, but i'd expect that with 114k miles.

So basically, there's no reason to go with a later VVT car from a power perspective. That makes THAT easy.

Are the things you get in a Sport package that big of a deal if you're just going to put one of your suspension kits on it anyways?

Oh, and SE does NOT mean "Sport," right?

I can't comment on prices, I don't really keep track across the country.

There's a difference between the 1999-00 Sport and the 2001-05 Sport setups. The former is Bilstein suspension as well as a Torsen and 15" wheels. The latter offers larger brakes, more underbody bracing and the Torsen along with 16" wheels. Everything changed in the braking system: master cylinder size, booster ratios, piston sizes and rotor size. The brakes are a nice upgrade and the chassis bracing makes it the stiffest chassis of the bunch. The heaviest too.

If you're going to put on one of our suspension kits, then the shocks on the car are of no importance. The brake size might be important to you.

If you're planning to modify the engine, I like the VVT engines. But stock, there's not much in them other than the tendency of the 1999-00 cars to eat their coils and then destroy the cat in response.

SE means Special Edition, not Sporty Example

Keith wrote: I can't comment on prices, I don't really keep track across the country. There's a difference between the 1999-00 Sport and the 2001-05 Sport setups. The former is Bilstein suspension as well as a Torsen and 15" wheels. The latter offers larger brakes, more underbody bracing and the Torsen along with 16" wheels. Everything changed in the braking system: master cylinder size, booster ratios, piston sizes and rotor size. The brakes are a nice upgrade and the chassis bracing makes it the stiffest chassis of the bunch. The heaviest too. If you're going to put on one of our suspension kits, then the shocks on the car are of no importance. The brake size might be important to you. If you're planning to modify the engine, I like the VVT engines. But stock, there's not much in them other than the tendency of the 1999-00 cars to eat their coils and then destroy the cat in response. SE means Special Edition, not Sporty Example

By modify, i mean intake, header, exhaust. MAYBE ITBs if i'm feeling especially feisty WELL down the road.

The earlier brakes are just fine for pretty much any scenario other than maybe hard track work, though, right? And if not, i saw on your site that you sell the conversion stuff anyways.

I think i'm just finding that the 99-00s are a rather large amount cheaper around me, and they seem like 95% of the car, for 75% of the price. Oh, and i like light.

Then go for it! Just pay attention to that check engine light. Ignoring one of the coil errors can lead to a cat replacement.

One of the tricks for a 1999-00 on a budget is to install the 2001-05 header. It gets rid of one of the cats (on a california car) and is a lighter, better-flowing part than the cast monster on the earlier car.

The earlier brakes work just fine. I was just differentiating between the two Sport packages.

Keith wrote: Then go for it! Just pay attention to that check engine light. Ignoring one of the coil errors can lead to a cat replacement. One of the tricks for a 1999-00 on a budget is to install the 2001-05 header. It gets rid of one of the cats (on a california car) and is a lighter, better-flowing part than the cast monster on the earlier car. The earlier brakes work just fine. I was just differentiating between the two Sport packages.

I was looking at the RB headers you sell anyways.