I'm not typically a person to grab my pitch fork on a new body release but holy cow this one is badddd.
I'm not typically a person to grab my pitch fork on a new body release but holy cow this one is badddd.
Not to pile on, but aside from the obvious miss on the plastic cladding, take a look at the first track previews vs the new BRZ/GR86 on YouTube.
BRZ/GR86 -- universal, unbridled joy from every reviewer. WRX -- a lot of talk about how the don't-call-it-a-CVT is actually a good thing, and a whole lot of meh from everyone involved.
GR86 reveal -- put every automotive reviewer on track. WRX reveal -- ride alongs only.
I usually don't get excited about new car launches, but I'm looking forward to test driving a BRZ/GR86.
It may be a concerted move to move the WRX into a GT segment, given that the new BRZ is so good at being an HPDE car?
My next car is probably going to be a BRZ/GR86. I will not be cross-shopping whatever *this* is.
The problem Subaru has is that nothing since the GC or bugeye GD will ever be as iconic.
To me modern automotive styling makes the styling of pre 2k cars seem timeless.
Want to appreciate a 3rd or 4th gen F car. Park a nice clean one (no beaters) next to a new one. Want to appreciate a C5 Corvette or even the C4. Park it next to a new one. Want to really get Subaru. Put a GC or GD next to a new one.
Even a Fox body Cobra or a Fox4 SN95 looks pretty good next to a new Mustang, and the new Mustang is a nice looking car.
Modern design ethic has to much complexity for often no real reason (like non round wheel arches).
NickD said:Tony Sestito said:The photoshops are starting to get weird.
BMW styling team are now salivating...
DirtyBird222 said:irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:DirtyBird222 said:decided to play the partisan politic game,
As a decade-long WRX owner and someone who is constantly around Subarus in the rally community (not to mention dozens of friends with them), I can't say I've ever heard anyone reference the "politics" of Subaru. Did I miss something?
Their US CEO made some pretty polarizing statements siding with a political party on behalf of Subaru, specifically a career politician. To each their own but it just shows how hard this company is struggling to find an image and stay relevant because they know their products are "meh" at best. This coming from someone who had a long term love affair and has owned over 10 different Subie's.
I will take your word for it. A quick Google search only comes up with something about Doll saying that Subaru doesn't want tariffs (which is not surprising seeing as they are foreign company). I mean the bulk of campaign money given to most politicians of both parties comes from CEOs and corporations.
I'm certainly not defending Subaru since I don't even know what you're referencing, but if I bought my cars based on liking the company CEO, I'd still be driving a 1980s Chrysler product lol.
Do they no longer build cars in Indiana?
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Do they no longer build cars in Indiana?
Sure, but not all of them (IIRC at least the WRX has always been built in Japan, unless that's changed). So any of them imported from Japan would (presumably) be subject to tariffs, assuming the tariffs were targeting imported automobiles. I can't say I know what the details were of the tariffs in question....could very well tariff profits going back to Japan, parts coming from Japan, or anything else. Also I assume FHI (or whatever it's called these days) imports other things that would be subject to various tariffs.
I'm about 25 years rusty on my international economics classes, so can't say I remember how it all works lol.
Also, no idea if that's even what Dirty is referring to. But, we can all only say "the new WRX is ugly" in so many ways....
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
I recall in the 90s that the most American car was the Saturn, it was 95% made in US, with the 5% being something like the air conditioning compressor. Nothing is fully made in the US, nothing is fully imported either. (Honda may be more American than some "domestics")
I think the WRX is awful because it is pointless. That is, it has no purpose. The original WRX had a purpose: homologate the Impreza with a turbo 2 liter for Group N and Group A stage rally. It lost its way over the years as that purpose slowly melted away with changing rules structures and, finally, the inability for Subaru to compete in the WRC due to the boxer engine. Now, there is no purpose to define its basic dimensions, its basic structure.
Which is where a thought I had came in, and there is no way that it could ever come to pass: Toyota is all about the badge engineering, how about a badge engineered Yaris GR? Granted, the GR also has nothing to do with the rally cars, but it's still a cool car that We Don't Get Here, like the original WRX...
Yeah, IDK. Building in-country is one way companies get around certain types of tariffs. But IIRC the "Chicken Tax" somehow managed to hit the Japanese pickups even if they're made in the US (I could be wrong, but thought I read that someplace).
Disagree on "purpose." Literally 0.00000001% of car buyers could give a crap about stage rally when buying a car (I actually DO stage rally, but did not buy my WRX because of its association to rally). The WRX was (and still is, to some degree) one of the few mass-market US market cars where you could get a Turbo and AWD with back seats (along with the DSM/Galant/Evo). Sure, plenty of turbo AWD sedans these days, but most of them are big luxo-barges. The WRX is still one of the few you can get with three pedals that doesn't weigh 4000lbs.
Also I'll be the one to say that my 2009 WRX was superior to a GD in pretty much every single (measurable) way. More power, bigger turbo, better suspension, more comfortable, and faster. I also appreciated the "stealth" appearance that managed to get me through 180,000 miles of fast driving without ever getting pulled over :)
Added opinion: The Yaris GR is even more hideous than the new WRX. Looks like an old Focus with cheesy APC rear fender flares IMO. Then again, it probably doen't blow head gaskets.
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
My issue and concern is that it gets closer to that luxobarge with every generation.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
My issue and concern is that it gets closer to that luxobarge with every generation.
I haven't been in any of the ones since my 09, but I know people complained about the GE/GH at the time. Mine had cloth manual seats, manual climate control, etc. It was literally no more luxurious than a bugeye, just better-built and somewhat more comfortable thanks to the improved rear suspension and a bit longer wheelbase. I thought the most recent one was actually a bit lighter than my 09, but could be wrong.
After a quick check, a base model 2020 WRX only weighs 200lbs more than a 2004 WRX (fully optioned up is about 400lbs more), so it really hasn't gotten too fat considering additional safety requirements, beefier engine/suspension, etc.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
My issue and concern is that it gets closer to that luxobarge with every generation.
I'd hardly call my 2015 base WRX a luxobarge. Sure it's got power windows, heated seats, AC, a backup camera and Bluetooth, but so does everything else. The seats are cloth and manual, there's no infotainment screen, single zone climate control, nothing really "luxury" at all. I like it because the extra money over and above the Impreza goes towards performance and not interior stuff and gadgets I don't care about. The only real alternatives right now are German and much more expensive. If the new STI comes out with more than 350hp and it doesn't cost much more than the current one, I'm probably going to buy one.
GTwannaB said:Ok I am calling out you whining brats.
Whahhh it's ugly. Every WRX has been ugly. Almost ever Subaru ever is ugly.
In two months the magazines will be allowed to drive it and they will all fawn over it. Go buy a nice used Prius already and be done with it and stop the bitching.
I remember the discussion years ago with one of my buddies, we knew nothing about Subaru, but determined that a car that homely could only come from Eastern Europe. He later bought a 2.5RS, one of the first, and few good looking cars from Subaru. Yes, that thing is hideous, but probably what should be expected from Subaru.
The magazines will fawn over it because that's what keeps them in business.
Wow... the negativity is radiating so strongly I worried if I should post at all...
I think the car looks good. IF and that is a qualified pending IF those box flares allow a fellow like me to do SCCA rallycross events without creating a million potential chips in the paint for rust to take hold. Then I give them great applause. On the other hand, if they are sticker applied trim that allows salt/sand/grit to get stuck between it and the sheet metal then a huge sigh of disappointment.
I will currently lean to the hopeful side until I hear more about the feature.
The peak power numbers are just that. What I love about my Evo VIII RS isn't big power it is how I can blend into and out of the power to control my car on track or in competition.
As Mitsubishi seems to be out the game forever, or only likely to come back only with a full electric Evo XI, I have to keep my eyes towards Subaru if I ever want something simlar. The Ford RS just seemed too EXTRA and too rare and too marked up for me to even look back over my shoulder at used one. Only a GRM forum thread keeps me interested in the Ford Focus RS.
Luxobarge isn't merely size or weight, it's also visceral engagement. The suspension geometry and power delivery on the new ones simply aren't as tossable and chuckable as previous generations. My commentary in the thread about the Golden age of vehicle performance rings true with regards to turbocharged imprezas. The stat sheets may be better but the driving experience is not more engaging or inviting. They may very well be a more enjoyable place to spend time as a passenger but they won't make you grin as much as a driver.
I'm aware that in focusing on smiles per a gallon, that I'm in the minority.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
My issue and concern is that it gets closer to that luxobarge with every generation.
I haven't been in any of the ones since my 09, but I know people complained about the GE/GH at the time. Mine had cloth manual seats, manual climate control, etc. It was literally no more luxurious than a bugeye, just better-built and somewhat more comfortable thanks to the improved rear suspension and a bit longer wheelbase. I thought the most recent one was actually a bit lighter than my 09, but could be wrong.
After a quick check, a base model 2020 WRX only weighs 200lbs more than a 2004 WRX (fully optioned up is about 400lbs more), so it really hasn't gotten too fat considering additional safety requirements, beefier engine/suspension, etc.
I complained about the GD when it was announced in 2001. I think I made imprezawrx.com my home page as soon as it was launched. I *wanted* one, the GC 2.5RS was just not enough... and then this bigger and fatter and slower and geared all wrong for a turbo 2 liter thing showed up.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
I guess that is where I am looking for more information. I will be the first to say that my Evo VIII does not have super awesome styling. It looks beautiful to me BECAUSE of how it drives and makes me feel. I did a deep look at the last WRX as many articles said it moved a lot closer to how hardcore the Evo was. I am curious how this newest WRX NON-GT trims will perform.
The Evo still rules many rallycross events so I hope Subaru brings something hard core even if limited edition.
In reply to Advan046 :
It's interesting that you bring up the Evo as a comparison. Because in spite of having incredible mechanical grip the Evo is one of the most visceral driving experiences there is. Part of that magic is the steering feel and how quick the steering is. The steering is so direct that people actually complain about it because if you're not focused on driving you can go halfway into another lane reaching down for beverage or changing a radio station but that directness and quick responsiveness is what makes it a crisp drive that communicates. The steering in the Evo is really only comparable to the Elise/exige twins. And it's what sets it apart from turbo Subarus
I don't like it.
One thing to note about the 2015-2021 WRX's is that they've got a rubber coupling in the steering shaft that's not present in the STI. There are a few options to deal with this, one is a clamp type device that aims to stop it from moving much, but I went the other route and replaced that little piece of steering shaft with the one out of the STI that has no rubber in it and that made the steering way nicer. I also added a shifter stop and a solid shoft bushing to eliminate a lot of the slop in the shifter and both changes together made a real noticeable improvement to how the car felt while driving. Coming from an FC with a de-powered steering rack to an RX8 R3 to the WRX, I was used to good steering feel and good shifter feel.
RX8driver said:One thing to note about the 2015-2021 WRX's is that they've got a rubber coupling in the steering shaft that's not present in the STI.
Why would they do that? It's like they just don't understand the type of person who wants a WRX...
STM317 said:
The tacked-on "styling feature" has grown additional "styling features." I think that's a clear indicator of "too far."
RAV4 was the first thing that sprang to mind for vast areas of black plastic in a funny shape around the wheelwells.
I do wonder how it drives. My '12 WRX wasn't anything like as good looking as the earlier cars (which I never sampled) but for a modern car I found it quite engaging.
MrFancypants said:RX8driver said:One thing to note about the 2015-2021 WRX's is that they've got a rubber coupling in the steering shaft that's not present in the STI.
Why would they do that? It's like they just don't understand the type of person who wants a WRX...
Maybe they do? I mean, you can get an OEM level parts upgrade from a junkyard or eBay, and some people don't care how good stock is if there is a way they can think they are upgrading it...
Pete. (l33t FS) said:MrFancypants said:RX8driver said:One thing to note about the 2015-2021 WRX's is that they've got a rubber coupling in the steering shaft that's not present in the STI.
Why would they do that? It's like they just don't understand the type of person who wants a WRX...
Maybe they do? I mean, you can get an OEM level parts upgrade from a junkyard or eBay, and some people don't care how good stock is if there is a way they can think they are upgrading it...
Lots of non-enthusiast types buy WRX's for various reasons. The ones who are after higher performance and track/autocross use typically go to the STI, which is why it has the no rubber steering.
Heck, I heard of someone buying a WRX over an Impreza because they wanted it in blue. My car was my mom's from new until my parents sold it to me and she's definitely not an enthusiast.
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