The F150 EV Lightning thread

I've been waiting for this truck for a few years now. If they come with an Expedition version I'll gladly sell my Expedition and buy it! 

I wonder if there's any plans for a tri-motor setup.

Keith Tanner said:

A thought - 

Since EVs can recapture energy while braking, does a heavy load really mean a significant loss of range? An ICE does a bunch of work to accelerate a mass and then the brakes turn all that energy into heat and throw it away. An EV gets some of it back - and the more the thing weighs, the more it can get back. It's probably limited by the rate at which the batteries can accept the power. So driving around town with a big load may not result in a big range loss.

Towing, you've got drag. Drag sucks.

doesn't help the only other EV with a decent tow rating. the model x. At full load the best range came from a car on an open trailer but was still only 55% of total range iirc. It is really the drag/aero of the load being towed that matters.

I like it and I like electric for my next vehicle. I'm 100% work from home in the new role.   If I go to the airport I get an Uber. 

I wonder if they will program in a sound for blind people, such as "broken exhaust studs on a mod motor" or "power steering whine"

Wait!  No nose-gate???  I just coined the phrase!

I'm out.  You're dead to me Ford.  I'm going to go live in the desert and mess around with E36 M3ty old carbs and shake my fist at the modern world.

MrChaos said:

Keith Tanner said:

A thought - 

Since EVs can recapture energy while braking, does a heavy load really mean a significant loss of range? An ICE does a bunch of work to accelerate a mass and then the brakes turn all that energy into heat and throw it away. An EV gets some of it back - and the more the thing weighs, the more it can get back. It's probably limited by the rate at which the batteries can accept the power. So driving around town with a big load may not result in a big range loss.

Towing, you've got drag. Drag sucks.

doesn't help the only other EV with a decent tow rating. the model x. At full load the best range came from a car on an open trailer but was still only 55% of total range iirc. It is really the drag/aero of the load being towed that matters.

It'd be nice to be able to put a canopy/fairing between the tow vehicle and trailer, but that is probably illegal for license plate reasons.

I forget the exact numbers, but once the load gets further than its width/height from the tow vehicle, the aero drag is the same as powering another vehicle through the air.

I was not talking about towing. I was talking about a bunch of stuff in the cargo area. Sorry if I was not clear. 

I'm looking forward to this truck, a lot. Not sure if it'd work 100% for my needs (towing an enclosed car trailer long distances) but it's close! 

I have time Monday morning to ask the Lightning team some questions if y'all want to know more on anything in particular.

MrChaos said:

Keith Tanner said:

A thought - 

Since EVs can recapture energy while braking, does a heavy load really mean a significant loss of range? An ICE does a bunch of work to accelerate a mass and then the brakes turn all that energy into heat and throw it away. An EV gets some of it back - and the more the thing weighs, the more it can get back. It's probably limited by the rate at which the batteries can accept the power. So driving around town with a big load may not result in a big range loss.

Towing, you've got drag. Drag sucks.

doesn't help the only other EV with a decent tow rating. the model x. At full load the best range came from a car on an open trailer but was still only 55% of total range iirc. It is really the drag/aero of the load being towed that matters.

That does bring up an interesting point though. As the trailer gets heavy the thing that sucks the most about the f150 is the brakes, and you end up relying fairly heavily on the trailer brakes. Adding regen braking into the equation might help that situation a lot.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

It'd be nice to be able to put a canopy/fairing between the tow vehicle and trailer, but that is probably illegal for license plate reasons.
I forget the exact numbers, but once the load gets further than its width/height from the tow vehicle, the aero drag is the same as powering another vehicle through the air.

That relationship in aircraft is the "fineness ratio". Length to diameter, with minimum drag occurring at ~13:1. Figuring truck and trailer total length, a fairing between them would be very effective. Most over the road truck have some sort of fairing behind the cab to help reduce that trailer gap. It would not be so popular if it did not provide some sort of benefit.

Just for fun I suggested that cars drafting on a track like Daytona align to get tho that ratio. It worked out to basically four cars nose-to-tail. The drivers don't like it since only one driver has any clue what is about to happen. They are faster when lined up though.

stafford1500 said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

It'd be nice to be able to put a canopy/fairing between the tow vehicle and trailer, but that is probably illegal for license plate reasons.
I forget the exact numbers, but once the load gets further than its width/height from the tow vehicle, the aero drag is the same as powering another vehicle through the air.

That relationship in aircraft is the "fineness ratio". Length to diameter, with minimum drag occurring at ~13:1. Figuring truck and trailer total length, a fairing between them would be very effective. Most over the road truck have some sort of fairing behind the cab to help reduce that trailer gap. It would not be so popular if it did not provide some sort of benefit.

Just for fun I suggested that cars drafting on a track like Daytona align to get tho that ratio. It worked out to basically four cars nose-to-tail. The drivers don't like it since only one driver has any clue what is about to happen. They are faster when lined up though.

Even works with karts. There is a group of three kids at our local track that practice nose to tail drafting as a team and it knocks enough time off a lap that they can catch anyone driving solo. 

dps214 said:

MrChaos said:

Keith Tanner said:

A thought - 

Since EVs can recapture energy while braking, does a heavy load really mean a significant loss of range? An ICE does a bunch of work to accelerate a mass and then the brakes turn all that energy into heat and throw it away. An EV gets some of it back - and the more the thing weighs, the more it can get back. It's probably limited by the rate at which the batteries can accept the power. So driving around town with a big load may not result in a big range loss.

Towing, you've got drag. Drag sucks.

doesn't help the only other EV with a decent tow rating. the model x. At full load the best range came from a car on an open trailer but was still only 55% of total range iirc. It is really the drag/aero of the load being towed that matters.

That does bring up an interesting point though. As the trailer gets heavy the thing that sucks the most about the f150 is the brakes, and you end up relying fairly heavily on the trailer brakes. Adding regen braking into the equation might help that situation a lot.

Regen only works on the tow vehicle, though.

Reminds me of wae describing the effects of his Mercedes' radar sensitive adaptive cruise control slowing the truck down when towing.  It does not engage trailer brakes when it does this.

This is a full-size, fully-capable crew cab truck that will go 0-60 faster than only the most recent Mustang GT's. That's INSANE. 

maschinenbau said:

This is a full-size, fully-capable crew cab truck that will go 0-60 faster than only the most recent Mustang GT's. That's INSANE. 

Yeah, I was thinking about that driving to work. Faster than my 4.6L GT, more torque, payload, and towing than my current EcoBoost F150. It's just crazy.

And you know it's going to be stupid heavy, but it's still that fast. 

Since there's already a thread about it, here's a photo dump from the F-150 Lightning press kit for your viewing pleasure. You can also check out the technical specs here.

Browsing the website, here's some copy and paste istuff that caught my eye...

Models:

Cool feature notes:

Frunk: 

Towing and hauling:

I know this isn't a popular stance here, but as a city-dweller, I sure wish they could lower the hoodline a bit instead of just making an enormous frunk. It's an extremely fast, heavy, enormous truck that has terrible sightlines. There's next to no consideration for anyone this truck inevitably crashes into baked into the design. 

The frunk, speed, and capability is cool for the driver, but all of it makes this truck more dangerous to everyone sharing the road with it. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Regen only works on the tow vehicle, though.

Um, trailers use electric brakes LOL

In all seriousness, how far away are we from a Ford built enclosed trailer that includes another battery under the floor to boost that range back up? Could also have another motor unit to help with performance but most importantly help get things slowed down and do regen. The cost would only make sense for someone always pulling the trailer (unless it's also a power wall when not in use?) so maybe the market is too limited right now. 

I just realized that I can put dirt bikes in the back and put all my gear in the frunk. That's rad. This is going to be super useful. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

dps214 said:

MrChaos said:

Keith Tanner said:

A thought - 

Since EVs can recapture energy while braking, does a heavy load really mean a significant loss of range? An ICE does a bunch of work to accelerate a mass and then the brakes turn all that energy into heat and throw it away. An EV gets some of it back - and the more the thing weighs, the more it can get back. It's probably limited by the rate at which the batteries can accept the power. So driving around town with a big load may not result in a big range loss.

Towing, you've got drag. Drag sucks.

doesn't help the only other EV with a decent tow rating. the model x. At full load the best range came from a car on an open trailer but was still only 55% of total range iirc. It is really the drag/aero of the load being towed that matters.

That does bring up an interesting point though. As the trailer gets heavy the thing that sucks the most about the f150 is the brakes, and you end up relying fairly heavily on the trailer brakes. Adding regen braking into the equation might help that situation a lot.

Regen only works on the tow vehicle, though.

Reminds me of wae describing the effects of his Mercedes' radar sensitive adaptive cruise control slowing the truck down when towing.  It does not engage trailer brakes when it does this.

Right. Truck regen braking plus physical brakes might mean it can actually stop with a trailer without the trailer brakes doing 80% of the work.

In reply to adam525i :

I bet in the future we start seeing fully-integrated "regen axles" for retrofitting trailers. They could be standard sizes to replace old axles, include a motor/generator, and massive cables to run to the tow vehicle for charge/discharge. OEM's would have to be onboard for the control programming and built-in cable receptacles near the hitch.

ultraclyde said:

 

And you know it's going to be stupid heavy, but it's still that fast

It will be interesting to know what the final weight ends up being for this truck.

If the Lightning really does have 1800lbs of battery, and you need to add motors, inverter, some cabling, and a small cooling system for the battery for a total sytem weight. You might have 2200lbs for the EV drivetrain. Plus I'm guessing the IRS weighs about 100lbs more than the stick axle/leafs. Maybe 2300lbs for the EV specific stuff? But the EV doesn't need an engine, trans, transfer case, driveshaft, fuel tank, or exhaust and it presumably has a smaller, lighter cooling system.

The F150 currently offers a max tow package capable of 14k. That rating only applies to 2WD, crew cab trucks with the 3.5 Ecoboost/10spd powertrain and comes with a 36 gallon tank and extra cooling. Selecting 4WD drops the rating down to 12.5k.

Add up the ICE specific stuff and you get: 450lb engine, 235lb trans,  250lbs of fuel system and gas, 100 lbs of exhaust, 50lbs of driveshaft and maybe 50lbs worth of cooling system and you're at 1135 for the ICE specific stuff in a 2WD truck. Add 4WD (Transfer case, another driveshaft, front axles) and you might be knocking on 1450-1500lbs of hardware.

So we might be in the SWAG ballpark of 800lbs heavier for the EV than the comparable ICE with Max Tow package? Maybe more if you're comparing to an ICE without the Max Tow package (smaller fuel tank and less additional cooling)

maschinenbau said:

In reply to adam525i :

I bet in the future we start seeing fully-integrated "regen axles" for retrofitting trailers. They could be standard sizes to replace old axles, include a motor/generator, and massive cables to run to the tow vehicle for charge/discharge. OEM's would have to be onboard for the control programming and built-in cable receptacles near the hitch.

Oh, I like that.

One thing I've always liked about the Big Three pickups is that they are the result of relentless Darwinian selection. At least they were in 2010 when I got mine. You can tell they are driven by function, with the sort of thing that people who use them for work appreciate - lots of storage in the center console, multiple gloveboxes, AC outlets in the dash, storage under seats, etc. They got a little gimmicky with time but fundamentally they've evolved to do what they do better than the other two options. 

It looks to me that Ford has taken a good shot at extrapolating this with the Lightning. The power outlets in the frunk and the general usefulness of the frunk itself, the ability to backfeed into the house (let's hope everyone updates their house wiring before using this) like a computer battery backup, the load measurement on the axles - I like it. This is what happens when one of the major automakers takes a serious shot at electrifying their biggest seller instead of just building compliance cars.

I just realized in those press photos that there's a charge door on each fender. That's pretty convenient!

In reply to STM317 :

Only if there's actually a charge port behind it. This picture implies that it's more about styling symmetry.