alfadriver wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote:
It doesn't hit hard when it hits. It's just a swell of torque that arrives a second or two after it is requested, not tick tick tick BOOM! I suspect - and Alfa can chime in here - that the transition into boost is a tricky area for emissions and that's why we're seeing this behavior more and more. I'm pretty sure that's why the MSM tuning was so funky. It's also a 1.5 engine making well over 100 hp/L. The Fiat engine might pair really well with an automatic.
I've never found it to be an emissions problem- every modern turbo engine can run stoich at peak boost for a little while without problems. So there's no real emissions impact.
What I see it as is 1) too small of an engine boosted to make too much power (big turbo-small engine)- so it takes some pressure to have it react, and 2) late trans reaction to 1. In theory, it should to a lock-lock downshift, or at least an unlock to raise engine speed and lower the lag. But it does not. This I have seen in some development things. Really annoying.
It's worse below 2000rpm.
I want to blame it on a small engine making too much power - but I drive to work in a 1.8L car that's boosted to about 250 crank hp, and it's far, far more responsive.
I've not driven the auto myself, only the stick.
As for the awkward angles, check out these two shots. The first looks pretty good. The second looks like two different cars stuck together.
Powertain matching can be difficult.
Your 1.8l isn't Multi-air, too. Not sure what that means in terms of the cam timing and how it reacts to the turbo very well. Things get really odd when you start putting many things together that are all trying to do the same thing.
Yeah, my car's the peak of late-80's Mazda engine technology with an aftermarket turbo bolted to the side. No wonder Fiat couldn't match it 
In reply to Keith Tanner:
It's all relative. I'd be pretty confident that in other aspects, the Fiat is superior. Depends on what the desire is.
Correct me if I'm wrong here but the 1.4 multiair doesn't have any cam phasing. Yes multiair gets you some ability to change your IVO/IVC but not without loosing overall lift. The lack of exhaust phasing means you are stuck with what ever timing is "optimized" for priorities that may not be heavily weighted on turbo response. When you hit the skinny pedal the only extra knob you have to turn is intake lift on a system that is much more stringently emission controlled than a late 80s Mazda.
Any chance we could see a data log in the future? Every newer car I drive makes me wonder why the throttle response is so disappointing. I daily an old FB, I don't expect much torque but the response is immediate.
The Fiat is definitely better on emissions than my old car, although I do wonder if it's much better on fuel economy. I've got a very consistent drive to work, I'll bring the Fiat home a few times and see how much different it is. My daily driver does have a good ECU that runs closed loop with a wideband all the time, so it's cleaner than it was when new.
Still, it's hard to come up with a justification for the wheezy engine given the technology available. I'm hoping some new plumbing will wake it up, that sure helped the Mazdaspeed.
Jerry mentioned the length of the hood. It's almost comical, there's an optical illusion that makes the hood look even longer than it really is.
The car's going on the dyno right now for baseline. This will be interesting.
We found why it's so laggy. It's pushing 16 psi of boost, but has somewhere around 0-5* of timing. Holy cow. 140-ish rwhp.
Keith Tanner wrote:
We found why it's so laggy. It's pushing 16 psi of boost, but has somewhere around 0-5* of timing. Holy cow. 140-ish rwhp.
So it's tuned to be driven by idiots, fed 87 octane, overheated, etc.
Have you ever worked with the public? I swear, half of them are of below average intelligence.
I like it with the black wheels with the polished lip.
So I got in our Fiat to drive it to lunch. The dash display announced that the car had been averaging 14.2 mpg.
It's possible we've been working this poor thing a little hard.
