Thinking about GRM

Honestly I have no complaints with the magazine. Or that article.

The B16A is an engine that anyone buying a used Honda could find swapped into any Civic, CRX, or del Sol from like 1984-2000. I like learning a bit about the experience of buying a car with the swap already done. I rarely trust pre-swapped cars myself.

The switch to OBDI and Hondata install may have been expensive, but it layed a lot of groundwork for later. If the staff decides to boost it or add power through other means, they'll be set for engine control.

As for stuff I'd like to see, since this thread seems to have gone in that direction.

Articles focused on finding the point of diminishing returns on any type of part would be welcome. Articles like these are one of the only ways people like me learn the point when I effectively stop getting what I pay for and start overpaying.

I also haven't seen many articles that focused on just one model lately, although maybe I just missed them: Strong and weak points, things to watch out for when buying used. I really enjoyed reading that type of article. I remember reading about the Fiat X1/9 and Maserati Biturbo. Both great reads.

The really specific stuff like David's Honda is tricky. It's very hot or cold. If it applies to your situation—which is a very particular situation—you'll have a total geek-gasm over it because it does so directly speak to you. Unfortunately, if you aren't in that specific situation, we have to find ways to make it appeal to you, which can be tough sometimes. It's one of the pitfalls of putting niche content in an already niche publication.

As for having outside labor involved in the projects, I think we're pretty balanced on that usually. For example, on the MS3, I did the installs on the shifter, the suspension, the intake, and all the digital stuff, and I think the information I learned from doing that work came across in the stories. When I started on the downpipe, however, I got about a third of the way into it and realized that I could have a disaster on my hands. There was just to omuch potential (and precedent) for a stripped thread or a snapped stud somewhere, which is apparently pretty common in this install. I thought a more prudent approach was to take it to a shop I trusted that had a Mazda parts delivery just a phone call away should an O2 sensor strip (which it did) or a stud snap (which it also did). It would have been a week of dicking around for me. As it was, it was a loooong day for a pro mechanic.

There's also the reality that it can be a real pain in the butt to do the work AND photograph the work properly. Not as easy as it sounds—at least not for me.

But we do read every word of threads like these and take careful notes. In fact, you can probably look at a lot of magazine content and point directly to a thread six or eight months earlier that may have planted the seed for it. Which isn't to say that all of the ideas here are good. Some are pants-crappingly terrifying, but I'm not going to single out anyone [pretty much anything MoFo comes up with].

jg

Sometimes, in life, you just have to do something pants-crappingly terrifying.

Sometimes, in life, you just have to crap your pants.

Drawers are cheap. Keep doing what you're doing.

The other thing I want to add is that I would really like to see more coverage of Grassroots racing. IE club racing in NASA, SCCA, etc.

I can understand that getting information can be major challenge given the sheer number of events spread all over the country, but at little more indepth would be nice.

I have to say I was dissappointed with NASA National coverage. I saw number of nice pictures, but not alot on the actual racing. I know there 50 classes with great racing and probalby 1000 great stories so impossible to do them all, but I would have been nice to try to capture the spriti of the event a bit more. Yes production schedules means the information may be a litte "stale" once the mag hits the racks, but I am sure you guys can figure away around that.

The other thing may be pro profile in depth racers at random. One of the things that I see the GRM is really autocross centric. This is not bad, but I think it furthers the myth that racing is out of reach for most. I think that GRM can help break that perception. I know probyl 5-6 years ago you did a seires on a guy who wanted to race and bought an ITB golf to do it in. That for me was fun stuff to see how this guy went from zero to hero (I think that was the series title). Anyway demistifying the step from autocross/DE to racing is a good thing that I believe will appeal.

When I read car mags I like articles that pulled me a bit and make me "WANT TO DO THAT". or "want to build that". The other are the really informative ones. Another example is the Charles Espenlaub fire incident. Very informative.

Of course I would love to see alot more 944 coverage too, but hey I can understand that 944's can be a "niche market".

Well I'd like to see more new car reviews on Ferrari's and Porsche's with number charts a acceleration/deceleration graphs. I'm sick of all this $2000 talk, let's talk about cars 90% will never be able to afford!

Obviously kidding here, you guys can be such whiners! I popped into a Subi forum to find many complaining that GRM doesn't have cover to cover Subaru articles. If they write about anything too much you're going to get sick of it. They have gotten WAY WAY too much slack for the 335 build. It is cool to see newer car stuff too guys! GRM doesn't mean it has to be a rusty heep that maybe starts almost 5 out of 7 days.

They will do more get your hands dirty old car build ups (remember the Saab rally car?), and they will do more builds like the 335. It keeps the mag fresh and exciting to read. I've had a dozen magazine subscriptions over the last 20 years and GRM is the only one I actually read cover to cover because it ISN'T all the same stuff on every page.

dean1484 wrote: How come you guys did not do the tune? Maybe that is the difference here. Most of us would have to research the thing and lean how to tune it. Then take it to the dynamo and use the results to get is correct and go back or if we are lucky you get it correct.

Honestly, I'd rather learn from the pros. ECU programming is a lot harder than many people make it out to be. Sure, WOT tuning for power is simple enough. But try to get a car to idle when cold with the AC on full without making it flip out when the car warms up and the AC is off and you'll learn it's a bit more complex. A friend of mine who used to do programming for major manufacturers (Bentley and Range Rover are two that come to mind) and now works for McLaren told me that there are five man-years of tuning in an OE ECU. And that was a few years back, it's probably more now.

So learning from a professional shop is the way to go. Find out why they're doing things and how, sure. But I'd rather follow someone who knows what they're doing instead of watching a bunch of newbies flounder around with what they've read on the internet. I get lots of that every day

Keith wrote: ECU programming is a lot harder than many people make it out to be.

It is?

(yea, I know... )

Although I think I'm capable of answering general question about ECU tuning to the point of writing an article if I know how it should be focused for best spread.

In reality- there are three basic questions for ECU tuning- what do you want it do it, how do you make the change in the ECU to do that, and how do you measure the change?

That's pretty much it.

The only difference between most aftermarket systems and mine is that you deal with parameters in the hundreds, I have to deal with parameters in the tens of thousands. But it's still the same princicple- knowing what you want, knowing how to make that happen, and measureing that it really happened.

Those are the kinds of articles that GRM can ask their knowledge base to help with...

Eric

Eric YOU SHOULD WRITE AN ARTICAL!!!!! If GRM would not publish it in the mag post it here!!!!! Seriously it would be fascinating to learn more of the inner working of car'sECUs and tuning theory and actual practice. An interesting article would be to take a car from stock ECU to running decent on DIY unit. In fact I am going to swap my 924s over to complete stand alone MAP / EDIS MS soon. I already have it on a MJLJ EDIS based ignition stand alone. I guess I should put my typing where my brain is and document it and write it down and see if anyone would be interested in the story. It would obviously be very specific to 944's but allot of the process would be the same I think.

I would even be willing to document it but I think my writing needs a little help before it is ready for prime time. Does GRM take notes and photos written in grease, crayon, blood and what every I happen to grab while I am doing this. I actually have a three part process that I formulated for this project that I am now in the process of executing the 2nd phase of.

It is basically

Research and planning and making lists.

Parts acquisition

Installation & tuning.

The last one can be broken in to two but since I have the ignition table all set in the MJLJ and all I will have to do is port it over to the MS I really am only going to have to deal with fuel when the time comes but I have all my notes on how I got / tuned the ignition to where it is now.

I like the idea of reader submitted articles like Dean suggested or Eric. As we all know these boards are a wealth on info for all of us. I would love to see what Eric has to say on ECU programming or what AngryC has to write about brakes.

Marty! wrote: I like the idea of reader submitted articles like Dean suggested or Eric. As we all know these boards are a wealth on info for all of us. I would love to see what Eric has to say on ECU programming or what AngryC has to write about brakes.

I'd love to know what Angry has to say about brakes as well. Here, I'll just pick up a June 2008 issue and turn to page 113...

jg

Wonkothesane wrote: The awesome thing about that article set is that it set some realistic "at home" level modifications, and still managed to get across the point that some things are just worth paying someone else to waste their time on, even if you would technically have the ability to pull it off yourself. ...one thing that I'm dealing with now is that my time is such short supply that there are some jobs that are just worth it to me to farm out, because I don't have 3 consecutive evenings to work on an exhaust install anymore. Article arcs like these really emphasize the kind of things that a lot of people need to know, namely, what can they realistically accomplish while still having a DAILY driver.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, as I'm in the same boat. I enjoy working on my own vehicles, but there are times when it would be smarter for me to just bring them to a shop. A good example is my truck's parking brake cable that broke back in September. Long story short, the 3 pieces of parking brake cable were fused together with rust, so I needed to replace all 3. Between young kids, cold weather (only a fabric garage), and a bunch of projects at the house over the winter, I finally got around to fixing it last weekend.

I find myself in a lot of situations where I research a repair or modification to death because I want to make sure I have every supporting part, bolt, etc. before I get started. Usually, if I'm lucky, I have one relatively free day every 3 months or so to fix something, so I need to make sure I get it all finished that day, or else it sits for a while longer.

So, to make a long story short, showing what things make sense for a shop to do up front is a big plus for some of your readers!

dj06482 wrote: So, to make a long story short, showing what things make sense for a shop to do up front is a big plus for some of your readers!

That is an excellent point. It was definitely one of the things I liked reading.

JG Pasterjak wrote:

Marty! wrote: I like the idea of reader submitted articles like Dean suggested or Eric. As we all know these boards are a wealth on info for all of us. I would love to see what Eric has to say on ECU programming or what AngryC has to write about brakes.

I'd love to know what Angry has to say about brakes as well. Here, I'll just pick up a June 2008 issue and turn to page 113... jg

That's one way to be a dick!

If you guys want these articles, pick up an issue of project car. I think that GRM is slowly going into a different direction. More towards the readers that have the $75k to $125k salary range, that can afford the $1k exhaust that produces as much as a junk yard setup, but happens to look much better.

That being said will the name of the magazine change??? From Auto-X to Grassroots Motorsports to Porsche Owners Club??

Andrew

digdug18 wrote: That's one way to be a dick! If you guys want these articles, pick up an issue of project car. I think that GRM is slowly going into a different direction. More towards the readers that have the $75k to $125k salary range, that can afford the $1k exhaust that produces as much as a junk yard setup, but happens to look much better. That being said will the name of the magazine change??? From Auto-X to Grassroots Motorsports to Porsche Owners Club?? Andrew

Are you serious?!? He was pointing out that they do publish reader articles and doing it in a friendly joking way.

The magazine isn't changing. There is still a balance of low $$ cars and higher $$ cars. But as I pointed out up thread a car like the 330i even with expensive parts on, is still cheaper than a fully developed Street Prepared or Street mod monster that's not practical for the street thus needing a second car (tow car?) to drive 6 days a week.

Also the magazine builds a project car over 6 - 18 months. Most owners have new cars for 3-6 years. If you add the exhaust this year, a reflash next year etc all the time daily driving it on street tires that's considerably cheaper than even keeping a stock car fed with A6's.

As for the magazine moving towards the $75-$125k readers, guess what, that IS THERE CURRENT DEMOGRAPHIC so why wouldn't they publish articles to suit? The magazine has always had a mix of high and low $$ projects. The Ro-spit was high $$, so in absolute terms was the 318ti BMW CC race car they built around the time I started subscribing.

One last thing. Even if the magazine only catered to higher cost builds, ignoring all the features on Challenge cars, DIY bodywork, engine management etc etc they still do, there's no need to change the name. Grass Roots doesn't have to = low cost. Grassroots means of or including the common people, i.e. from the bottom up. That can be high, low or no cost.

From the LSx Miata thread

Joe Gearin wrote: "Grassroots" does not mean cheap!

See, someone else get's it

Andrew,

It is easy to get that feeling. I hope you are wrong. I also farm out allot of stuff to the pro's. Heck, any work that requires me to get under the car from about December 15th to March 15th and it goes to the shop or it sits till things warm up (I have several old cars. That seem to rotate through repair cycles. The wife gets the new car / truck). Anyway yes there is a time and a place for giving things to the shop. For that matter most all basic maintenance can be justified as shop work. I really don't want to know how to change pads on any car. What I want to know is why you chose the new pads that are being put in and even better see the actual test results or better yet leap forward at the end and give a 3K impression of them. (even if it isn't so good)

This is supposed to be about motorsports. This is not "grassroots run-of-the-mill-OME-Honda" That magazine is already in print it is called "The shop Manual".

This is what I am getting at with respect to farming things out. Regarding tuning. On the Honda in the last issue all we know is that they plugged in the new ECU and all was perfect with the world. But what did they do? What did they start out with and what did they correct to make the fix. I know it is a balancing act between boring the masses with technical stuff that will cause eyes to glaze over versus just plugging in something and it works and moving on. Unforchantly I am always asking how and why when ever I read stuff about cars. I like the technical stuff. It would have been interesting to publish the before and after maps even though were different ECUs

Anyway once again I am rambling on. . . Back to work. . .. Friday is almost over!!!!

Yeah, JG was just making a point that Angry did write an article recently (and a kick ass one at that) and that we are always open to well thought out stories written by people that know what they are talking about. We get a little touchy when we hear complaints that we don't do this or that, when we in fact have. It is almost like those complaining don't you know.....actually read the magazine!

Andrew, hopefully your post was a bit tongue in cheek, as we have many low dollar projects featured recently. (Neon, Golf, Rat Miata, etc) We have also had a few not so inexpensive projects featured. We have readers of all income levels, why would be turn our back on those that have a bit of $$ to spend.

Keep in mind GRM has been around for 25 years. Back then Tim was autocrossing with other young up and coming guys like Randy Pobst. Over the years people tend to make more $$ and instead of racing a GTI or RX-7, maybe now they are tracking a Corvette, BMW or Viper. Does this mean we should turn our backs on these guys that have been loyal readers for over two decades? No. Does it mean we will turn our back on the 20 year old penniless kid trying to do his first build in his backyard? Also no.

Does this mean that Randy isn't one of us anymore? Not a chance!

I took no offense to JG comments, I knew he was making a funny.

I also didn't know that AC had written that article, 'twas before my forum days. Now I have to get that issue back from my brother to re-read it.

I only have one other comment before I climb back under my rock. I see the posts here more as suggestions rather than complaints. You guys make it too easy for us to do both and I could see how sometimes they start to sound/feel the same.

Apologies if it came of being negative, that was never my intention. Keep up the good work.

On the topic of reader submitted articles. One 4x4 forum I belong to has "topics of the month" and asks it members to post. I could see a benefit to having a tech topic of the month section here. For example you could have a topic of do it yourself alignmets. Joey could post up insights on how to do it on an old VW, while bob can do the same for honda civics and someone else for whatever odd ball car they drive. Jeff posts on how he went to home depot and bought the items to make his own alignment tools and so on. After a while you end with a pretty nice resource. GRM suggests the topic for the month. Then they cherry pick some info for a print article at a later date. Pretty much the same stuff that goes here already, but rather than wait for someone to post a question about a current problem, you proactively discuss a certain topic.

Don't forget, most of our writers--if not all of them--were previously "just a reader." I was a subscriber before working here. Ditto JG, Per, Scott, Tom and the rest of the crew. Most of our regulars--Carl, Robert Bowen, Andy Hollis, Keith, AngryP, Sahar, etc.--first approached us as fans of the magazine. The process usually starts with a query letter.

Now that I think about it, I can't remember working with anyone who didn't read our magazine. They might not all post here, but they definitely come from our ranks.

As far as moving in a direction, we're not. Yes, the BMW 335i received a nice exhaust system. It was an appropriate move for that car. Is a 335i too rich for our audience? Yesterday we were visited by a reader who just bought one. However, don't forget all of the low-buck editorial that has recently appeared plus the stuff in the on-deck circle. If there's an article that seems to reach the higher end of our budget range, it's usually tempered with a bunch of low-buck editorial.

Highlights of the June issue, which is currently in the works: Low-buck tips from our Challengers, home-made race cars, welding tips, turning old lawnmowers into yard karts, fabrication tools, building a low-buck rallycross car, project VW Golf kickoff.

By the way, nice to see everyone so passionate about the magazine.

digdug18 wrote:

JG Pasterjak wrote:

Marty! wrote: I like the idea of reader submitted articles like Dean suggested or Eric. As we all know these boards are a wealth on info for all of us. I would love to see what Eric has to say on ECU programming or what AngryC has to write about brakes.

I'd love to know what Angry has to say about brakes as well. Here, I'll just pick up a June 2008 issue and turn to page 113... jg

That's one way to be a dick! Andrew

I have several other ways, too. Many even involve cosplay. (Seriously, sorry if anyone thought I was being wangy here. Okay, maybe I was a little, but not that much).

David and I were talking this afternoon about this very thread and how the perceptions of the editorial can be different from the reader and the producer perspective.

In some respects, we tend to view the editorial in a non-linear fashion. If you take a snapshot of a two-year window that extends from 18 months ago to six months from now, we sort of group all that editorial together as "current." It's not really a policy, it's just kind of how it works in our heads.

For the readers, though, I'm sure it's different. I don't know exactly what defines "current" for each individual, but I tend to think (from what market research we've done) that issues sort of drop from the collective consciousness after about 5-6 months.

So what's that all mean? Well, I don't know, really. We do try to push as many hot buttons as we can within certain time windows, but as the audience grows we also add to our button collection.

Long story short, for most folks, I'd guess that if there isn't something they particularly like in a single issue, they probably wouldn't have to go more than one issue back or forward to find content that better suited them. That's the plan, anyway.

And, of course, when we aren't alienating readers with sassy remarks we are listening to them,and reacting as fast as we can.

jg

Honestly, I think there's a great balance in the magazine between lower end and mid-range projects. I like the idea of more in-depth technical content, maybe the website would be a good medium for some of that. For example, the magazine could cover the high-level, and maybe the website could contain a sidebar with more detail.

I locked into a 10 year subscription a couple of months back with no regrets. Well one regret, I wish there was still a lifetime subscription available Keep up the good work everyone!

JG Pasterjak wrote: For the readers, though, I'm sure it's different. I don't know exactly what defines "current" for each individual, but I tend to think (from what market research we've done) that issues sort of drop from the collective consciousness after about 5-6 months.

JG Pasterjak wrote: Long story short, for most folks, I'd guess that if there isn't something they particularly like in a single issue, they probably wouldn't have to go more than one issue back or forward to find content that better suited them. That's the plan, anyway. jg

Not that I want to trade quantity for quality, but the most obvious fix is more issues