True cost of a Lemons Car

Probably been talked about a million times, sorry. 

What does a Lemons racer really cost

a) to build

b) race for a weekend

I watched a ChrisFix video the other day (im not recommending the channel, I tried watching the non-Lemons videos and just got nothing from them), and he built a BMW for Lemons and went racing with some friends. Got me wondering what it actually cost to build a $500 car up. I know in the video he mentioned about $4k for the cage, but Im not sure if that's a normal price or a "youre on youtube" deal etc

Probably be best to ask here if you haven't already https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewforum.php?id=2

So much easier and cheaper to buy rather then build.

We had about $10K in a "$500" Miata and built our own cage. It could be done a bit cheaper but we like good looking cars that are pleasant to work on.

I think a lemons car can be built for $2k-10k depending on how much work you do yourself, and the tools you have available to you. As far as the cost to run the car, it depends mostly on pace. When our Volvo was mostly stock, we got 3 races out of a set of pads, and two races out of a set of tires. Fuel burn was about 3.5 gallons per hour. The hardest part about racing lemons is finding 3 reliable people who have money.

Our '92 GTI was $750 with a circle track cage in it and billisien coilovers. We had to adjust the 'cage to fit the rules and that was about $500 (we had our own fab guy on the team). Poly windshield (purchased during COVID) was almost $400, plus maybe $50 for hardware to install it. Great brakes all around (can't remember the brand name) were about $500. 4 tires, $400. Used Kirky seat that I can't remember what we paid for it. Refresh for the 2.0 was about $150. Battery relocation was probably $100. Fire suppression- market price. Then money for all of the other odds and ends. We also paid a shop $100 or so to pre-tech it and it passed. I am sure I missed some stuff. 5pt harness-market price.

Full race gear was $800-1000 for me since I did not have any that was new enough.

Entry to the NH race was $1200 or so for the team that we split 4 ways. We also spent the money for a garage.

Then fuel containers, wagon, bribes, team theme, spares, fuel to get there (One tow vehicle with trailer and my Tacoma freighted with spares/tools/quickjack/etc.)

I am sure I am missing other things.

Picking the right team-priceless. Ours fell apart after.

I'd say 5k to 15k for the car build and how good you want it to look and how many penalty laps you are okay with.

Race weekends are anywhere from 3k to 7k all in.

I built my race winning 3.5gm v6 swapped rx7 for about 12k all in.  Usually charge about $1600 per driver (4 drivers) for a race weekend and don't make a penny.

Our cars started of not competitive, but got better. 

$740 purchase price

$200 recouped

$1500 Cage (not realistic but we know a guy)

$250 used seat

$100 5 point (costs more now I'm sure)

$100 used wheels/tires

$150 theme items 

That's $2590 as it sat at the first race. The only things it got for the next 8 races were brake parts, fluids and tires. We won IOE and class C before blowing that engine. To put that car back on track now I would need to install fire suppression which I don't know the cost of. 

I don't have any records of individual races. I know I generally pay $3-5 per minute spent on track, so $450 to $750, for fees and consumables ,and that's not including food or transportation. We keep fuel costs low burning 3-5gpm which is a significant savings.

It depends, do you want to *race* it for a weekend, or do you want to show up at the track, drive for a couple hours, and then spend most of the rest of the event wrenching on it in the paddock? :)

I've posted this previously. This is from 2019, the last time I built a car from the ground up. This cost was to field 2 cars, including driver's fees but not including personal safety gear.

At present, including building one car, we are at $5480.50. That cost includes registration, cage, fuel cell, fire suppression, lighting, brakes, and a lot of little things on the Datsun. That price also includes registration, the fire suppression system, lighting, clutch rebuild and little crap on the Civic. Also included is all the driver fees. 

Not yet included is fuel, 6 tires for the Dirtson, food, towing costs, and lodging. All in it will cost about $6500 to field two cars, including building one from basically scratch. We are going with 10 drivers, so that's about $650 each. Which is about what it cost to build the Civic 10 years ago with 4 drivers.

This does not include personal safety gear. The basic kit from Lemons is about $500. 

What costs most teams when it comes to building a car is the cage. If you don't have a bender and the capability to build a cage, add $2k+ to the cost of the car. The cage in the Dirtson cost $260. 

Our team bought an existing race car (though not without issues that had to be worked out, still easy enough and super reliable), rented safety gear (racesuitrentals), and slept at the track (trailer cots). Our lowest race cost, including food, fuel, tires, and the practice day, was $864 per person (team of 4) in 2018, our highest was $1200, when we first got the car and had to get it up to snuff, and it was an away race, so cost of trailering it there added up. We race plebeian 2.0 VWs, and run 14" tires, our comms system is a timer in the car (if it breaks, come in, otherwise see you in an hour) this keeps our consumables low and our track time at a maximum (we rarely have a mechanical issue). We are most always in the top 50% of the field, so not a rolling chicane and have some good racing with other teams. 

If you want to be competitive it's a lot more expensive than you think.  You'll end up going through a lot of parts and spending money on things you'd never imagine.  I have spreadsheets in my e-mail from the one team I considered being a part of.  I donated and sold a lot of parts and knew the leader.  It's a great time, but racing and finishing isn't as cheap as anyone says it is.  I'm not sure anything that is a lot of fun is as cheap as anyone says it is though. 

Wow is this eye opening:

I've got $9200 in the Datsun and I spend $1000 - $1400 per weekend. There is a race each day so a I get just shy of 3hrs track time.

There is $6700 in the F500 and the running costs are the same as the Datsun. If I towed it with the Subaru I could save $200 for weekend costs.

never do the math

Tom1200 said:

Wow is this eye opening:

I've got $9200 in the Datsun and I spend $1000 - $1400 per weekend. There is a race each day so a I get just shy of 3hrs track time.

There is $6700 in the F500 and the running costs are the same as the Datsun. If I towed it with the Subaru I could save $200 for weekend costs.

 

1000 to 1400 per weekend is about on par with lemons or champcar.  It's about that for 4 hours of track time assuming 2 hour stints and 2 days of racing.

camopaint0707 said:

never do the math

I calculated my tire wear at 75 cents per lap in 2003, and that was for an ITB Golf, not some high powered car. It's not a cheap sport, no matter where you race.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

It depends, do you want to *race* it for a weekend, or do you want to show up at the track, drive for a couple hours, and then spend most of the rest of the event wrenching on it in the paddock? :)

In my experience, the latter scenario is inevitable, lol. 

If you build a car, plan on the first race being a development session, even if you do track days first.  It really takes about 6 hours of racing before everything is stressed to the max and failures present themselves.

A well-developed and well-prepped car will still have a major event at least 1 out of 3 races.

Edit:  It's almost always cheaper to buy a proven car than build one from the ground up.  Save the build for when you have some experience under your belt and know exactly what you want.  For a solid car I would say $5-7k starting price to buy-in and another $2k to freshen it up, plus consumables. 

Ooooh!  This topic again!  

I've built 3 LeMons cars.  Based on my experience, and adjusted for inflation, to get a running, tech-passing, reasonably "race-ready" car to the grid on Saturday morning of a race weekend will set you back around $6000, assuming you can do most of it yourself.  This is also assuming you have a decent, but not expensive cage builder, a car that you legit bought for $500 (or sold parts off of to get to that level) and a car that isn't some wacky thing that parts are crazy expensive for.

The race weekend will cost about $500 per driver, between entry fees, gas, repairs, food, etc.  

This is also assuming you already own drivers suits, HANS devices, etc.  Figure $600 or so per driver to get all that stuff if you don't.  It can also be rented.  

Our first car we caged ourselves for the cost of tubing.  But this was back in 2008/9, when the rules and enforcement were a lot more....lackadaisical.  The second LeMons car we paid a guy $1000 to cage...this was ~2011 or so.  Around 2021 I had a friend and fellow LeMons racer cage a car for me, he did it for $600 plus the cost of the tubing, which worked out to about $1200, but this is very much a "friends helping friends" rate.  Realistically I don't think you could do a leMons-legal cage for under $2500 now, and depending on where you live, and the car, it could be double that.  

Yeah the costs have gone up on cages, and fire suppression is now mandatory but $5000 seems to be the low end to have a car to run the weekend. $10,000 will get you in the range of a "good" lemons car. Races have gone up a little with the costs of things but depending on driving distance our budget usually works in the $1250-1500 range for a 4 driver team. The further you have to tow to get to the race the higher the cost.

Logdog and I were trying to make this work a few years ago, with a few coworkers. We couldn't because of the incredible outlay of cash for cheap racing lol.  I seem to think that, even with Logdog donating the car, it would have been about $8K (split 4 ways) to see the first green flag, and realistically $500 on up (each) for each race after the first. That's assuming nobody stuffs it into a wall or sends a con rod into the stands.   

Keeping in mind that I am a fan of Lemons and the like bit one of the reasons I haven't done it is you have to depend on other people.

My early motorcyle racing experience cured me of that. There were three of us we were going to split the cost of fuel and lodging to haul the three bikes. After a couple of races it was clear I wanted to go racing much more than they did.

Over the last 35 years I've found my experience is not that unique; it's tough to coordinate a group of people for any kind of event.

My hats off to all of you who make it work.

Calculated our Champ Car Elantra cost and it comes to right at $6500 all in as the car sits now. 

Race weekends cost $3500(VIR 8+7)-$5500(VIR 24hr).

In reply to Tom1200 :

I  have a solid 4 friends I can say who love to race as much as I do.  One of them made his soft retirement from racing right around the time I met another one, so we have 3 reliable drivers (plus me) and one unofficial "Team Dad".  Being plugged into the LeMons community helps to find drivers, but I'm picky about who I'll let drive; on the flip side, it takes a special kind of idiot who's willing to pay money to pilot a 55-year old Swedish car around a track.  

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

What's not to love in a 55 year old Volvo?

camopaint0707 said:

never do the math

Every time a buddy who is a few steps behind me in building an E46 asks "how much are you into xxx for?" I start trying to get him a real cost, then the more details [costs] I remember, the more I start hurting my own feelings, and eventually I always just end up stopping and saying "I don't know man, a lot."

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I  have a solid 4 friends I can say who love to race as much as I do.  One of them made his soft retirement from racing right around the time I met another one, so we have 3 reliable drivers (plus me) and one unofficial "Team Dad".  Being plugged into the LeMons community helps to find drivers, but I'm picky about who I'll let drive; on the flip side, it takes a special kind of idiot who's willing to pay money to pilot a 55-year old Swedish car around a track.  

I'll do it. Let me know if you need a driver. I'm a veteran, and can provide references.